Yellow Box at T Junction - PCN Advice

Car_54

Ant555 wrote: »

I think the rules state that both your exit and your lane have to be clear - I believe it is OK for the other driver to enter the box and wait in it to turn right!

The law actually states "no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles."

Notice no mention of exits. It goes on to give an exemption for turning right, which however does NOT apply when emerging from a T-junction.

Ant555

Car_54 wrote: »

The law actually states "no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles."

Notice no mention of exits. It goes on to give an exemption for turning right, which however does NOT apply when emerging from a T-junction.

Thats good news for the OP then! (I think)

unholyangel

Was just going to say, even a photo would be enough if it shows the car in front of OP as the double dash line means traffic emerging needs to give way to traffic on the main road.

Even if the exception to turning right in the box junction applied, it doesn't give them right of way.

At a box junctions controlled by traffic lights, you wouldn't ignore a red light solely because you're turning right and you are allowed to stop in the box when turning right.

DTDfanBoy

Car_54 wrote: »

Notice no mention of exits. It goes on to give an exemption for turning right, which however does NOT apply when emerging from a T-junction.

What makes you think the right turn exemption doesn't apply when emerging from a T junction, the regulations are pretty clear on the matter "other than a box junction at a roundabout"

OP if the traffic, turning right from Bridge Ln, was already stopped in the junction before you entered the council may have a case, if not you should be able to win at appeal. Go to Pepipoo for advice on how to appeal

unholyangel

DTDfanBoy wrote: »

What makes you think the right turn exemption doesn't apply when emerging from a T junction, the regulations are pretty clear on the matter "other than a box junction at a roundabout"

OP if the traffic, turning right from Bridge Ln, was already stopped in the junction before you entered the council may have a case, if not you should be able to win at appeal. Go to Pepipoo for advice on how to appeal

I think he means that the exemption is for when you are turning right and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic or other vehicles waiting to turn right. Yet at a t-junction, there is no oncoming traffic (or at least, thats how councils are interpreting it - whether courts would I have no idea). Its a moot point for the OP anyway due to what I said above.

As you say though, OP should win his appeal providing the exit was clear at the time he entered the junction - regardless of what subsequently happened.

Nodding_Donkey

The car coming from bridge lane is also guilty of stopping in the box. He's not turning right out of it, he's going straight on through the box then turning right

DTDfanBoy

Nodding_Donkey wrote: »

The car coming from bridge lane is also guilty of stopping in the box. He's not turning right out of it, he's going straight on through the box then turning right

That's not correct, it's a T intersection the car coming from bridge lane is clearly entering the box for the purpose of turning right. Even if you choose to ignore the right turn exception, if traffic travelling along Finchley Rd was moving the car turning right out of bridge still hasn't committed an offence by stopping on the markings

deaston

I don't remember where it was, but I once encountered a box junction on a roundabout which, because of its size and the curve of the roundabout, you couldn't actually see if the exit was clear until you'd entered the box.

Nodding_Donkey

DTDfanBoy wrote: »

That's not correct, it's a T intersection the car coming from bridge lane is clearly entering the box for the purpose of turning right. Even if you choose to ignore the right turn exception, if traffic travelling along Finchley Rd was moving the car turning right out of bridge still hasn't committed an offence by stopping on the markings

It IS correct. For the car to be turning right it would have to go on the wrong side of the road, or the box would have to cover the far lane on Finchley Road.

NBLondon

Having finally found it on StreetView - the point of the box junction is clearly so that if the traffic is solid on Finchley Road, it leaves a gap for a vehicle to turn right out of Bridge Lane.


So as DTD says - if the car was already in the turn right position when the OP arrived - the OP should have stopped short and only continued into the box when the path and exit were clear, If the emerging car pushed out when the OP was about to enter (or had just entered) the box then the OP has a defence.


Whether the emerging car has the right to enter the junction and wait for a space to turn right is a different question.... I agree with Nodding Donkey - if the yellow box covered both lanes, that would be OK. But as it is, I'm not sure.