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13 1/2 year old parking ticket
Adams5905
Posts: 2 Newbie
On Monday May 22nd, I received an enforcement letter dated May 15th (so my first question should be why has it taken seven days to arrive) concerning a £90.00 ticket allegedly issued on October 31st 2003.
I cannot deny owning the car at some stage (P******Y), but can’t honestly remember when the car was stolen, nor the insurance company that provided me with cover at that time, that I could contact to establish this.
The letter has been sent by HMCTS Historic Debt Team, and claims that this debt could still be ultimately enforced by imprisonment. I had been given until May 27th to settle the debt-that was the following Friday, which again seems rather unfair and smacks of bullying-surely I should have a minimum of 28 days. Although the letter gives some references, there is no mention of where the offence (car left in stopping box designated loading/unloading) took place. It was quite possible that I was driving my then father-in-law, who was registered disabled, and had a blue badge, to a medical appointment. If the vehicle was left for five minutes in a loading bay with a blue badge displayed, CCTV (which is where I’m assuming this was recorded, as there was no ticket ever left on this car that I didn’t pay) wouldn’t necessarily have picked it up.
So, my question is, is there not a statute of limitations on this type of debt?.. This alleged infringement is, after all, over 13 ½ years old!..
UPDATE: I spent a whole week contacting various agencies country-wide-the original letter is now covered with ‘phone numbers-each queue I joined had the dreaded recorded message “we are experiencing high call volume, please stay on the line, and we will answer your call as soon as possible”, and have discovered the following:
1. The car was (and is-see below) legally registered to me at the time of the offence, and furthermore, that offence was committed in Streatham, South London, not far from where I lived, so technically, I cannot deny liability.
2. The car was subsequently stolen from a car park in Eltham, East London, but despite reporting this to the police, my insurance company (see above), and the DVLA, Swansea have no record of this, and the car is still registered as ‘on the road’, and in my name. I have written by hand to Swansea, as per their instructions, to rectify this-apparently, this is not an unusual occurrence.
3. After umpteen ‘phone calls, I attended Cambridge Magistrates Court in person, to make a “Fixed Penalty Statutary Declaration”, only to discover I have to pay an £80.00 fee upfront, then make an appointment to make the declaration. This is information is not included on the recording at Cambridge Magistrate’s Court, as their information relates only to offences committed within Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire, not London. This resulted in a wasted trip to Cambridge (an hour’s drive away), and may incur a further cost.
So I am still faced with the same problem, and have since received a further enforcement letter (of which I had been warned), threatening further action (warrant of control, bailiffs, clamping of vehicle, etc). This second letter contains even less information than the first-it’s simply headed “The amount you owe is £90.00”. It seems to me that the agency concerned are still trying strong-arm tactics to bully me into paying. They have provided no evidence that the original offence was ever committed-no CCTV or other photographic evidence, and the location was only revealed to me after I had contacted them. There are no instructions on the letter as to how to proceed, other than the payment instructions, and the references quoted are so old they mean nothing to any of the agencies I have contacted. There was never a ticket attached to the car-what would be the point of simply ignoring it-it never really goes away, I would have started an appeal there and then. I have moved house four or five times since this original date, but have always instructed the Post Office to forward my mail-why is this the first I have heard concerning this debt?
I do not wish to pay either the fine concerned, or the fee for the statutory declaration, as surely this is an admission of liability, and my original question still stands-can they realistically enforce a debt incurred for an alleged offence committed over 13 ½ years ago?
I cannot deny owning the car at some stage (P******Y), but can’t honestly remember when the car was stolen, nor the insurance company that provided me with cover at that time, that I could contact to establish this.
The letter has been sent by HMCTS Historic Debt Team, and claims that this debt could still be ultimately enforced by imprisonment. I had been given until May 27th to settle the debt-that was the following Friday, which again seems rather unfair and smacks of bullying-surely I should have a minimum of 28 days. Although the letter gives some references, there is no mention of where the offence (car left in stopping box designated loading/unloading) took place. It was quite possible that I was driving my then father-in-law, who was registered disabled, and had a blue badge, to a medical appointment. If the vehicle was left for five minutes in a loading bay with a blue badge displayed, CCTV (which is where I’m assuming this was recorded, as there was no ticket ever left on this car that I didn’t pay) wouldn’t necessarily have picked it up.
So, my question is, is there not a statute of limitations on this type of debt?.. This alleged infringement is, after all, over 13 ½ years old!..
UPDATE: I spent a whole week contacting various agencies country-wide-the original letter is now covered with ‘phone numbers-each queue I joined had the dreaded recorded message “we are experiencing high call volume, please stay on the line, and we will answer your call as soon as possible”, and have discovered the following:
1. The car was (and is-see below) legally registered to me at the time of the offence, and furthermore, that offence was committed in Streatham, South London, not far from where I lived, so technically, I cannot deny liability.
2. The car was subsequently stolen from a car park in Eltham, East London, but despite reporting this to the police, my insurance company (see above), and the DVLA, Swansea have no record of this, and the car is still registered as ‘on the road’, and in my name. I have written by hand to Swansea, as per their instructions, to rectify this-apparently, this is not an unusual occurrence.
3. After umpteen ‘phone calls, I attended Cambridge Magistrates Court in person, to make a “Fixed Penalty Statutary Declaration”, only to discover I have to pay an £80.00 fee upfront, then make an appointment to make the declaration. This is information is not included on the recording at Cambridge Magistrate’s Court, as their information relates only to offences committed within Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire, not London. This resulted in a wasted trip to Cambridge (an hour’s drive away), and may incur a further cost.
So I am still faced with the same problem, and have since received a further enforcement letter (of which I had been warned), threatening further action (warrant of control, bailiffs, clamping of vehicle, etc). This second letter contains even less information than the first-it’s simply headed “The amount you owe is £90.00”. It seems to me that the agency concerned are still trying strong-arm tactics to bully me into paying. They have provided no evidence that the original offence was ever committed-no CCTV or other photographic evidence, and the location was only revealed to me after I had contacted them. There are no instructions on the letter as to how to proceed, other than the payment instructions, and the references quoted are so old they mean nothing to any of the agencies I have contacted. There was never a ticket attached to the car-what would be the point of simply ignoring it-it never really goes away, I would have started an appeal there and then. I have moved house four or five times since this original date, but have always instructed the Post Office to forward my mail-why is this the first I have heard concerning this debt?
I do not wish to pay either the fine concerned, or the fee for the statutory declaration, as surely this is an admission of liability, and my original question still stands-can they realistically enforce a debt incurred for an alleged offence committed over 13 ½ years ago?
0
Comments
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a quick google search using HMCTS reveals this
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hm-courts-tribunals-service-advice-to-debtors-on-unpaid-historic-fines
tellls you in there all you need to know (and it was news to me too)
also saw this
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/5clhjz/historic_debt_enforcement_team_hm_courts/
seems to look like a sc@m but apparently its real , from a new team0 -
In answer to your question is, in short no. Once convicted any fine can be chased forever. The Limitations Act states when proceedings must be comenced by but does not limit the time to enforcement.0
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a quick google search using HMCTS reveals this
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hm-courts-tribunals-service-advice-to-debtors-on-unpaid-historic-fines
tellls you in there all you need to know (and it was news to me too)
also saw this
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/5clhjz/historic_debt_enforcement_team_hm_courts/
seems to look like a sc@m but apparently its real , from a new team
Good spot Redx - news to me too. I'm sure we'll see a few more of these in the coming months.
@OP - I wonder whether PePiPoo might be able to give you some advice - they are the council tickets experts. Register there (but please note that a hotmail address won't work) and post a new thread; here's your link:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=SF&s=&f=30
Have a read through some of the other threads there before you post your own to get the hang of what information they need from you in your opening post - but as a minimum you will need to post redacted photos/scans of all correspondence you've received from the council (both sides, if appropriate) as they need to see all the small print.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
We tend to specialise in private parking tickets here on MSE so you would be better served posting this on pepipoo.com.
You will need to register with an email address on pepipoo but please note that Hotmail doesn't work for some reason.
Good luck.
edit.
Umkomaas beat me to it.I married my cousin. I had to...I don't have a sister.
All my screwdrivers are cordless."You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks0 -
a quick google search using HMCTS reveals this
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hm-courts-tribunals-service-advice-to-debtors-on-unpaid-historic-fines
tellls you in there all you need to know (and it was news to me too)
also saw this
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scams/comments/5clhjz/historic_debt_enforcement_team_hm_courts/
seems to look like a sc@m but apparently its real , from a new team
I think new to most people.
So the government is on a collection spree ?
Who will get all this money, maybe the NHS or will they
forward it on to North Korea0 -
its scary..i have recieved one this morning regarding an old TV license mess up,,and they mean business..but i think this one i should be able to resolve as i remember having correspondence with sutton megistrate court,..my only concern is about ten years ago,my circumstances changed dramatically,i couldnt put up with the payment of my credit cards and overdrafts,the sum of bad debt was roughly 15k and lucky enough i didnt get any CCJ my only fear is will they come and try to get this amount from me?:(..0
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As usual chasing the small fry while letting the likes of apple, Starbucks, Amazon and Google get away with millions!0
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They threaten prison ????? where will they place all these people,
I thought debtors prison went out with the dark ages ?0 -
No, not quite: Theresa May will give it to Trump (along with her own little "tribute") and he'll forward it to North Korea.I think new to most people.
So the government is on a collection spree ?
Who will get all this money, maybe the NHS or will they
forward it on to North Korea0
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