Smart meters question

brewerdave

Are we sure that these "smart" gas meters currently being fitted ,report battery condition back to the supplier ?? Or is it just an alarm on the meter itself ?

EachPenny

brewerdave wrote: »

Are we sure that these "smart" gas meters currently being fitted ,report battery condition back to the supplier ?? Or is it just an alarm on the meter itself ?

v1.59 says they should be capable of sending a 10% alert via the HAN... whether they actually get the alert back to the supplier or not I guess depends on the supplier.

Edit: Presumably the meters that have gone dumb through a supplier change won't have anyone listening for the alert even if one is sent. Lets hope lots of people don't get undetected flat batteries.

MeterMan

It will be manufacturer that bares the cost of a faulty meter, or faulty battery.

The gas meter uploads its useage information to the inhome display every 30 minutes, rather than every 15 seconds like the electric meter.

Lets the say the battery on the gas meter dies, the supplier will stop receiving readings and this does get flagged up, and we are sent out to fix or replace, and usually replace the whole meter is the answer.

EachPenny

MeterMan wrote: »

It will be manufacturer that bares the cost of a faulty meter, or faulty battery.
...
Lets the say the battery on the gas meter dies, the supplier will stop receiving readings and this does get flagged up, and we are sent out to fix or replace, and usually replace the whole meter is the answer.

The manufacturers are giving the meters (including the batteries) a 10 year guarantee then? That wouldn't be so bad after all.

If the customer has changed supplier and their meter has gone dumb, how would the current supplier find out the meter wasn't supplying readings because of a faulty battery? Presumably they'd only find out if the customer notices the display has gone blank (or displays nothing when the buttons are pushed).

So if the meter was then replaced with a non-functioning display, how will the fitter be able to leave the customer with a change card showing the old meter readings?

I ask becasue there are a lot of threads on here with people getting estimated bills because of meter faults - is this likely to happen more often as SMETS1 meters reach the end of their battery life with nobody keeping an eye on the battery state?

MeterMan

When a meter is removed due to the battery failing, it gets recorded as a blank reading and then its up to the customer and the supplier to determine an agreeable useage figure and cost.

House_Martin

No one gets stuck with non functioning gas meters with dead batteries for very long. Our meter readers are out the next day to replace the battery on dumb meters usually before they fail or if not the next day if a customer complains.No central heating in winter is a serious fault and customers go bonkers when it happens.. My colleague , who fits these batteries before they die ( on prepayment meters ) says he constantly gets refused access to do his job ! very suspicious. There should be no difference with smart gas meters on the speed of getting the meters working..We fit Lithium Thionyl Chloride 3.6 v d cells. We have special storage places for them at handy spots for each area.Our local storage for a box of these pricey batteries are at our local Tesco s in their rentable storage boxes.10 years and more is the expected use altho I have seen the smart gas meters fail in a few months.They must be very good batteries as 10 years is good going for any small battery. The display is not constantly flashing to save battery power. I was told that the smart gas meter communicates the reading only once a day to the electric meter, not every half hour.Maybe the battery would nt last long at that rate.. I fully expect that all suppliers will be giving the option of only once a month readings communication.
. BGs latest gas smart meter, Landis Gyr g370 is listed in their website as SMETS 1 and SMET2 compliant so presumably no change needed for when SMETS2 gets rolling

50Twuncle

House_Martin wrote: »

No one gets stuck with non functioning gas meters with dead batteries for very long. Our meter readers are out the next day to replace the battery on dumb meters usually before they fail or if not the next day if a customer complains.No central heating in winter is a serious fault and customers go bonkers when it happens.. My colleague , who fits these batteries before they die ( on prepayment meters ) says he constantly gets refused access to do his job ! very suspicious. There should be no difference with smart gas meters on the speed of getting the meters working..We fit Lithium Thionyl Chloride 3.6 v d cells. We have special storage places for them at handy spots for each area.Our local storage for a box of these pricey batteries are at our local Tesco s in their rentable storage boxes.10 years and more is the expected use altho I have seen the smart gas meters fail in a few months.They must be very good batteries as 10 years is good going for any small battery. The display is not constantly flashing to save battery power. I was told that the smart gas meter communicates the reading only once a day to the electric meter, not every half hour.Maybe the battery would nt last long at that rate.. I fully expect that all suppliers will be giving the option of only once a month readings communication.
. BGs latest gas smart meter, Landis Gyr g370 is listed in their website as SMETS 1 and SMET2 compliant so presumably no change needed for when SMETS2 gets rolling

So you are saying that when batteries expire -you lose supply ?
this is extremely worrying !!

EachPenny

50Twuncle wrote: »

So you are saying that when batteries expire -you lose supply ?
this is extremely worrying !!

HM is mainly talking about prepayment meters (including non-smart) with a valve which cuts the supply when you run out of credit. Depending on make and model, when the batteries fail the valve could get stuck in either the open or closed position. If its in the closed position then the customer is obviously going to be on the phone demanding an engineer visit immediately... if it is in the open position then, well there may be less urgency shall we say

The main problem for a consumer is if the batteries have failed then the meter won't be displaying an accurate figure for consumption. As discussed in other threads and confirmed by MeterMan, in this case it is up to the supplier and consumer to agree a figure.

Various threads on here indicate this 'negotiaton' is along the lines of: Supplier:"You've used this amount". Consumer:"No, it's far less". Supplier:"Prove it". Consumer:"How can I?". Ombudsman:"We believe the supplier, even though their meter was faulty". Consumer:"$%£*@##!!"

Where it gets complicated is smart meters are meant to be able to operate either as prepayment or credit meters with the ability to be switched between modes remotely. They also have the capability for the supplier to cut your supply off entirely, by remote command. These are features which smart meter promoters will tell you enable a reduction in energy theft and debt because the supplier will no longer need to do a home visit to cut you off if you get behind with your bill.

The 'naysayers' will point out that this is a feature which could cause consumers problems if the technology fails (perhaps as simple as a flat battery) or if someone is able to bypass the security features and send the remote 'shutdown' command to the meter - or lots of meters at the same time.

50Twuncle

EachPenny wrote: »

HM is mainly talking about prepayment meters (including non-smart) with a valve which cuts the supply when you run out of credit. Depending on make and model, when the batteries fail the valve could get stuck in either the open or closed position. If its in the closed position then the customer is obviously going to be on the phone demanding an engineer visit immediately... if it is in the open position then, well there may be less urgency shall we say

The main problem for a consumer is if the batteries have failed then the meter won't be displaying an accurate figure for consumption. As discussed in other threads and confirmed by MeterMan, in this case it is up to the supplier and consumer to agree a figure.

Various threads on here indicate this 'negotiaton' is along the lines of: Supplier:"You've used this amount". Consumer:"No, it's far less". Supplier:"Prove it". Consumer:"How can I?". Ombudsman:"We believe the supplier, even though their meter was faulty". Consumer:"$%£*@##!!"

Where it gets complicated is smart meters are meant to be able to operate either as prepayment or credit meters with the ability to be switched between modes remotely. They also have the capability for the supplier to cut your supply off entirely, by remote command. These are features which smart meter promoters will tell you enable a reduction in energy theft and debt because the supplier will no longer need to do a home visit to cut you off if you get behind with your bill.

The 'naysayers' will point out that this is a feature which could cause consumers problems if the technology fails (perhaps as simple as a flat battery) or if someone is able to bypass the security features and send the remote 'shutdown' command to the meter - or lots of meters at the same time.

With electricity meters - why don't they take a feed for the actual meter from the "outside" supply - ie) before the consumer ?
And how long - before HACKS become common place - available to anyone with a mobile phone - with apps available in the app store ?

EachPenny

50Twuncle wrote: »

With electricity meters - why don't they take a feed for the actual meter from the "outside" supply - ie) before the consumer ?

If you mean power to supply the metering system, then yes, the smart electricity meter should get its power from the unmetered supply side, in the same way traditional E7 timeclocks do.

Of course that doesn't stop the electronics in the meter from failing, or being hacked.