Smart meters question

EachPenny

50Twuncle wrote: »

I agree - cyber threats are the future concern !
There's GOING to be problems in the not to distant future - there are going to be encryption issues !

When nuclear war seemed a very real threat many people responded by going back to basics - self-sufficiency and living in remote places were very much in fashion.

The only way we can avoid cyber threats having a substantial impact on our lives is to similarly go back to basics. I don't mean by ditching your mobile and wearing a tin-foil hat - but by simply questioning whether this 'thing' needs to be 'smart' in order to do its job.

I've not heard a single convincing argument that an item of critical national infrastructure (energy meters) actually needs to be smart. We managed with 'dumb' meters for a very long time.

House_Martin

All digital gas meters have batteries, smart or dumb.I think they should last at least ten years.They do give coded warnings of low batteries. The prepayment gas meters have anti tamper seals in place which can be easily snipped or defeated and then the occupier may get lucky and remove the battery in an attempt to shut the meter down with the valve flap in the open position.This is an extremely popular way to steal gas
. As a meter reader for 20 years I have seen thousands tampered in this way. The suppliers who don t routinely check their customers gas prepays (the big 4 foreigners and the little guys ) are negligent in the extreme in this respect but they are nt worried because the stolen gas is paid by the rest of us. Smart gas prepays have anti tamper error codes built in to alert the supplier when this trick is pulled..Yet another positive for smart meters on here against the usual naysayers who continue with their negatives against new technology...here they come !
Just a little aside here on the subject of remotely cutting off supplies. This has been available for gas meters in outside box meters.. The control valve is usually inside the box open to mischief, vandalism by just pulling the lever and switching the gas off.In twenty years I have only come across one incident (by a neighbour I m told ) of this happening.. I cannot see where any benefit would come from anyone who fancied remotely shutting off my gas or electric. I think its more likely that Vlad and his massive army will wage nuclear war than some teenager in his bedroom hacking gas supplies off

MeterMan

Why do threads on Smart meters end up in an arguement.

As for the batteries in meters, they are the same type that have been used in gas prepay meters for at least 10 years. They have an expected life span of 10/15 years, which happens to be the life span of a meter. There are no plans to exchange batteries in the event of battery failure, we would just exchange the meter.

The battery lasts the longest when the valve that opens and closes the gas way operates the least.

House_Martin

At the moment Meterman several of my meter reading colleagues exchange batteries on dumb gas meters as part of their job. We have very little training, we are not "engineers " just blokes on not far off minimum wage working for the largest meter reading company G4S who recently dumped us all with another cheapskate company called Morrisons Data Services who are worse than G4S in cheapskating.
.There should be no arguments whatsoever about smart meters, they are good for everyone, cheaper to run, help stop the free energy bonanza in the UK and lower overall operating costs. Prepayment meter tariffs will come down in price (as they have done in Northern Ireland ) because of much cheaper systems needed to run them..The same old bunch will soon be having a dig or two as usual but it keeps them amused and feeling important .

50Twuncle

Surely the batteries in Smart Meters cannot last that long ?
They need to be capable of running a clock and also transmitting data to base - several times a day/week/month (whatever) and if this were the case - why do mobile phone batteries not last so long ?

50Twuncle

House_Martin wrote: »

At the moment Meterman several of my meter reading colleagues exchange batteries on dumb gas meters as part of their job. We have very little training, we are not "engineers " just blokes on not far off minimum wage working for the largest meter reading company G4S who recently dumped us all with another cheapskate company called Morrisons Data Services who are worse than G4S in cheapskating.
.There should be no arguments whatsoever about smart meters, they are good for everyone, cheaper to run, help stop the free energy bonanza in the UK and lower overall operating costs. Prepayment meters will come down in price (as they have done in Northern Ireland ) because of much cheaper systems needed to run them..The same old bunch will soon be having a dig or two as usual but it keeps them amused and feeling important .

So the estimated £390 per meter in cost - comes from where ?
Does the government want to cough up £9 3/4 billion or do we get charged in increased bills ?
The latter - I think
losses through theft of gas and electricity add up to £400 million pa
I currently have a DD for £25 per month for dual fuel

EachPenny

50Twuncle wrote: »

Surely the batteries in Smart Meters cannot last that long ?
They need to be capable of running a clock and also transmitting data to base - several times a day/week/month (whatever) and if this were the case - why do mobile phone batteries not last so long ?

I cannot see a minimum battery life mentioned in SMETS either - so who will be held responsible when the batteries don't last more than 5 years in real-life use?

50Twuncle

EachPenny wrote: »

I cannot see a minimum battery life mentioned in SMETS either - so who will be held responsible when the batteries don't last more than 5 years in real-life use?

You can bet that we the consumer will end up paying in bills !!
I will ask Scottish Power how long the batteries will last for and take it from there....
I am trying to decide whether to accept a SM or not and it doesn't look very good for new technology at the moment

EachPenny

50Twuncle wrote: »

I am trying to decide whether to accept a SM or not and it doesn't look very good for new technology at the moment

If you take a balanced view, the best bet is to sit and wait until they start fitting SMETS2 meters which promise compatibility between suppliers making it easier (more convenient) to switch supplier.

SMETS1 meters have limitations which might, or might not, be fixed in future. If you don't need a smart meter today then it is worth the wait. People who already have a SMETS1 meter are likely to be at the back of the queue to get a SMETS2 meter - so you could end up stuck with a limited functioning meter for a long long time.

House_Martin

50Twuncle wrote: »

So the estimated £390 per meter in cost - comes from where ?
Does the government want to cough up £9 3/4 billion or do we get charged in increased bills ?
The latter - I think
losses through theft of gas and electricity add up to £400 million pa
I currently have a DD for £25 per month for dual fuel

Price of a bulk buy Siemens e6 smart gas meter, Libra 310 is around £100 I would guess.That figure you quote could be the total costs including installation. That is where all the money is wasted with suppliers fitting them to their customers instead of the usual way with National Grid and their contractors fitting at much faster levels.. My meter fitter mate working for EON on smart meter fitting has many days fitting one or two a day and driving around all day with the radio on..£11 billion is an underestimate in my opinion..double it !
My water meter operates at similar short range levels as a gas meter and has nt had a new battery since it was installed many years ago