BW LEGAL 3 County Court Claims !

strinder27

HI everyone.


I am currently in discussion with Bw Legal over 2 PCN for not displaying a permit in 2012 and 1 PCN for not displaying a permit in 2014. These were all committed by my partner but two county court claims have been issued against me even though i have repeatedly told them i am the registered keeper only and it should be my partner on every claim ( wed rather risk one getting a CCJ rather than both of us)


Here are the facts

1. My partner had a permit that she paid monthly out of her Salary tried to contest these claims within 14 days sent repeated email to Excel Parking who ignored her and she gave up
2. no communication from Excel Parking for few month and as normal people do we moved home
3. apparently they have been sending these consistently for 5 years but obviously to the wrong address
4. Issued county court proceeding to may parents address which is weird as I haven't lived there for 6 years! but anyway this is when I started communication with BW Legal.
5. they would not provide me with any information for the past 6 months until today 3/6/2017 whereby they have issued all the evidence usual stuff. pictures etc...

How I have tried to resolve ....


1. rung up and explained I don't have a clue what these are for due to other stressful event in my life so offered to pay £100 for each to just get rid of them - Rejected by BW Legal
2. I send all the evidence of payslips and permit application to prove we were paying a permit during the issuing of the tickets. - BW Legal have ignored this communication.


I am currently at the Mitigation stage for all 3 County court claims but I don't know where to go with this. I have offered to mitigate several times and falls of deaf ears.


i don't intend on paying the total £900 (3x£300) for the PCN as we had a permit regardless if it fell of the window screen etc... BW Legal and Excel are purely trying to profit from what was clearly and error (permit fell of windscreen)


if anyone can offer me any advice on what to do next we are clearly at a stale mate whereby both parties don't want to shift. do you think i have a strong hand ???

Coupon-mad

I am currently at the Mitigation stage for all 3 County court claims but I don't know where to go with this. I have offered to mitigate several times and falls of deaf ears.

Mediation? We don't recommend that. What's the point? You don't owe any money and were not the driver. I hope you have that fact 'I was not driving' in your defence, at least?

What did you put in your defence and why on earth are there three live (separate) claims? Have you not also argued that these should be amalgamated into one hearing?

Have you missed the NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST' thread, which tells you in post #2 all about how to defend and win at court stage? NOT by Mediation...

We help 100% of posters here beat BW Legal but so far it sounds like you've played it wrong, all except the fact that it sounds as though your wife never gave her postal address when appealing and it sounds like when you named her as driver you also didn't give her postal address (that's why they've continued at you instead of her).

That's a good thing because you can't be held liable - did you know that?

Please read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread.

And was the 2012 PCN before OCTOBER 2012?

System

Multiple claims for the same set of circumstances is an abuse of the court process. The other two claims should be struck out (by reason of estoppel) or all three repleaded again as one.

A relevant case is Arthur J S Hall & Co (a firm) v Simons; Barratt v Ansell and others (trading as Woolf Seddon (a firm)); Harris v Scholfield Roberts & Hill (a firm) and another - [2000] 3 All ER 673

where at #701 the House of Lords held that:

The law discourages relitigation of the same issues except by means of an appeal. A person should not be troubled twice for the same reason. This policy has generated the rules which prevent relitigation when the parties are the same: autrefois acquit, res judicata and issue estoppel.

Suggest you write to BW Legal and ask that they withdraw the claims and submit them as one, or explain to the judge the purpose of three different claims and why each is materially different from the others. Add that you will seek to have the claims estopped and costs claimed.

If they ignore this (which they might) it is important when you get to the Witness Statement stage to have a Preliminary section that does what is says above - seek to have the claims struck-out/estopped and costs claimed.

strinder27

Coupon-mad apologies Im new on here and missed your Newbie post but one thing has really eased my stress as I was always concerned about CCJ


"You do not pay legal costs in small claims, nor do you get a CCJ even if you lose; as long as you pay within 30 days of judgment it's all sorted and nothing stays on the register (i.e. your credit record)."


There are three because they sent three. i have asked county court and bw legal to cancel and raise them all in my partners name as one case they said they cannot do this (they are like robots)
county court rude and abrupt - thank you legal service of my country treating me like criminal
BW Legal - are just a call centre and couldn't even tell me where the PCN occurred or why


Yes both were before October 2012
Im the registered keeper of both cars
1st one is in my name - parents address - offence 11/05/2012
2nd one is in my partners name - old address redirected to parents address - 17/04/2012
3rd one is in my name with different car - parents address - offence 6/01/2014 ( county court claim sent 20/4/2017 when i was already in conversation with bw legal about the others)


*redirection was put to my parents address after i heard about sensitive info could be send to your old address and used by people - protecting myself if i hadn't of done this i would have missed them*


I haven't had the opportunity to do as you suggest mainly because sometime in March I had two county court claims land in my parents address which I had 2 days to respond as I didn't know that they were there. i thought they were a scam at first so rung my local county court office to confirm.

instantly responded stating they were in my possession and to give me more time and then I went to citizens advice where I was told you must respond to these. I have stated I was not the driver and no longer own the vehicles etc... I then stated with out being provided with any evidence and left it as that.

the only letters etc.. i am receiving now is from the County court business centre where they offer mediation etc... and i was told by citizens advice to accept all this otherwise if it went to court it would look bad on me....


Since this has been going on and BW legal now know my current address they have sent another County court claim to my address for a PCN in 2014. which i thought was disgusting !


3 June i have now received what i should have 5 years ago which is the PCN copy with photos etc.... and they claim that they acknowledge my permit but we still didn't display it therefore charges stand. so they admit we paid for that particular day but not showing a piece of paper which fell off windscreen means £300 charge.

currently i am at the stage of all three where mediation through county court has been accepted. i was looking to delay these as much as i can to reach the limitations Act. i will not be agreeing to pay a penny to them as we have already paid for parking on them days as they have acknowledged in their letters.

They state

PCN dated 17/4/2012
"Whilst we note your comments made that you pay for a parking permit to use at the car par. You were required to display a valid permit in clear view for the parking attendant, which you failed to do.


PCN dated 11/05/2012
"you will note that you were required to purchase and display valid permit for the vehicle in question. The photographic evidence shows no permit was on display, therefore the PCN has been issued correctly.


PCN dated 6/01/2014
"you will note that you were required to purchase and display valid ticket /permit for the vehicle in question. The photographic evidence shows no ticket / permit was on display, therefore the PCN has been issued correctly.

i know i haven't done this the right was but their tactic of sending County court claims straight way have had me on the back foot. i work like 12 hours a day often taking work home as well so seriously stressed out and i just followed the citizens advice guide as he seemed to think just me being able to provide pay slips showing the payment of permit was enough evidence to win these cases.


appreciate any advice

Fruitcake

You do not under any circumstances want mediation. It will most definitely not look bad on you if you don't use it. If asked in court why you didn't use it you say, you owe nothing, they want the full amount, mediation therefore would be futile.

Neither do you want this heard on papers. You want your day in court.

As already mentioned, do not reveal the driver's identity at any time, even if you know it. Nobody, not even a judge, can make you tell them.

The experience of regulars and other posters on here has often brought the comments to this forum that CAB know nowt about private parking, and you are wasting your time by contacting them. The regulars here have more knowledge here about this subject than the whole of CAB put together.

If you are really struggling, the BMPA motoring charity might be able to help you, but you will still have to do the legwork. They have a court section on their website.

Coupon-mad

Have you admitted who was driving?

Please don't, that's one of the MANY reasons NOT to engage in Mediation *discussions* which are POINTLESS FOR YOU.

What do you mean, one was 'in your partner's name'? The PCN? So how did you end up getting the claim for that one in your name? Please don't say you appealed as driver?

i was looking to delay these as much as i can to reach the limitations Act.

You can't. The claims have been filed so they have taken it to court stage in time.

What you need to do is NOT admit who was driving, not say much at all in Mediation except to repeat what IamEmanresu told you about estoppel, making it clear to the Mediator that three claims are not supported in law AND that as registered keeper you cannot be held liable and the driver has never been identified (we hope?!!).

As well as mentioning it in the Mediation call (then phone down, end the call do not settle nor discuss, nor answer, if the Mediator asks if you were driving) you MUST do as IamEmanresu says, in writing to the local court it has been allocated to.

strinder27

By providing the Evidence of Showing the permit application and the payment of permit on the months the PCN fell on I have kind of indicated that it is either me (registered keeper) or my partner (permit holder) driving the vehicle. it doesn't take a genius for them to work out who was driving as it was my partners place of work which she has a permit for. so this would free me from any charge etc... but we would still have to sort these out for my misses.


One PCN and count court is in my partners name and the other 2 are in my name. So both of us will need to be attending court. but as I have said all three should really be in my partners name they have just come after me as I am the registered keeper on two of them.


Could I raise the letter of estoppel estoppel on all three as they have directed the county court claim at me and my partner in hope that one of us would admit to the driving of the vehicle. Even the fact that they have sent three when it should have only ever been one as these PCN are 5-3 years old.


I tried this at the start on the phone but the county court business centre guy said "sir you need to fill in the forms and return" I will do this all in writing.

i have only gone down this road because i have been bullied into it with three county court claims being issued to me with know warning.


My claim has always been ..... i have been forced to convict myself and partner by completing the county court forms without no evidence being issued to me (only now received 3/6/2017 - 3months after county court documents) . if i had been given time to review evidence etc before the county court papers i would have defended myself much better.

System

if i had been given time to review evidence etc before the county court papers i would have defended myself much better.

You do have the opportunity. Between the defence going in and the actual hearing is a period where you can get the information from PCM. You then use it to write a Witness Statement and if you have the background, you can also at a Skeleton Argument.

It's not over by a long way so get all the information together and get your head together.

strinder27

Ok ... so going through the mitigation process all I need to do is NOT state who was driving the vehicle on all 3 occasions and my stance is I shouldn't be paying a penny of these PCN as there is no proof who was driving the vehicle. I will not mention permit being paid or anything I will save this for the court.

All the information I have for my case is


My partners PCN
1. proof that the start of the PCN notice being issued my partner sent 10 emails disputing the PCN with replies from Excel parking ignoring them.
2. we have pay slips from her place of work at that time showing that she paid a monthly permit charge to Excel parking.
3. evidence appearing 5 years later where by the acknowledge the existence of the Permit.


My two PCN charges.
1.I will issue an Estoppel letter to have the both claims struck out and a new one raised combining the both claims.
2. continue the stance that I am the registered keeper and not the driver of the vehicle so I cannot be made liable for the PCN's

Loadsofchildren123

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5638268

OP have a look at this thread. I wrote LBCs for the driver/permit holder to send to her employer and to excel.
They cancelled the PCNs.
Your partner already has the right to park. Granted to her by her employer by a contract between them by which she pays her employer and they allow her to park.

If you are organised and can show that Excel's t&cs were not part of that contract then they are irrelevant. Plus the windscreen display thing wasn't fit for purpose.

Read the thread and start kicking !!!!.

At the DQ stage ask for the 3 claims to be joined together.

Have you done a defence yet? I think you should counterclaim against Excel for trespass. And you should bring the employer in to indemnify you and for breach of contract (allowing Excel to interfere with the parking rights). Trouble is applying to join the employer would cost a court fee if £255. But you must certainly threaten it.

If you kick enough a***e the employer will get Excel to back off.

Who is the employer?

Loadsofchildren123

Actually you don't want to join "your" claims with the one against your partner.
You want all hers joined, and all yours. Yours you deal with simply- I wasn't driving and they've known that for months. Please kick out this claim and give me costs to reflect the Claimants wholly unreasonable conduct in issuing these claims. Partner's claims you defend on basis she had pre-existing rights and nobody had the right to impose new/additional terms on her. And if they did the term obliging her to display the permit was frustrated by them providing an unfit for purpose display envelope.
I got as far as drafting a defence in the Admiral claim before they caved in. If you pm me your email I'll send it to you.