continuous payment authority

MarkDavidClarkeLondon

Hello all

I'm having an issue with a company that has made a request on my debit card - without my knowledge or consent.

I have previously used them for adhoc purchases using a debit card but I've been told by my bank that i have “signed up” - inadvertently - to a continuous payment authority arrangement.

( Oddly enough, previous payments to the company do not show up as CPA or reoccurring )

My understanding of CPA is that it is to be used for regular amounts on set days - like a mobile phone bill or similar. This has never been the case with this company. All payments have been on the day of purchase.

I'm also led to understand that if a CPA is in place and another amount is requested, the requester is by law required to give me notice of the amount being requested.

Hopping back to setting up the CPA, it was probably done when I gave the website permission to store my details.

That said the T&C's on the site don't mention CPA but rather

If you choose a direct payment gateway to complete your purchase, then ******** stores your credit card data. It is encrypted through the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard (PCIDSS). Your purchase transaction data is stored only as long as is necessary to complete your purchase transaction. After that is complete, your purchase transaction information is deleted.

Which I suspect is not being adhered to as they are obviously storing my CVS number somewhere.

so - to cut a long story short - they have either

a - Breached the regs regarding CPA adhoc payment notification

or

b - Stored my details illegally

maybe both?

I want to take this to the county court, can anyone here suggest the best way forward?

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth

MarkDavidClarkeLondon wrote: »

Hello all

I'm having an issue with a company that has made a request on my debit card - without my knowledge or consent.

I have previously used them for adhoc purchases using a debit card but I've been told by my bank that i have “signed up” - inadvertently - to a continuous payment authority arrangement.

( Oddly enough, previous payments to the company do not show up as CPA or reoccurring )

My understanding of CPA is that it is to be used for regular amounts on set days - like a mobile phone bill or similar. This has never been the case with this company. All payments have been on the day of purchase.

I'm also led to understand that if a CPA is in place and another amount is requested, the requester is by law required to give me notice of the amount being requested.

Hopping back to setting up the CPA, it was probably done when I gave the website permission to store my details.

That said the T&C's on the site don't mention CPA but rather

If you choose a direct payment gateway to complete your purchase, then ******** stores your credit card data. It is encrypted through the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard (PCIDSS). Your purchase transaction data is stored only as long as is necessary to complete your purchase transaction. After that is complete, your purchase transaction information is deleted.

Which I suspect is not being adhered to as they are obviously storing my CVS number somewhere.

so - to cut a long story short - they have either

a - Breached the regs regarding CPA adhoc payment notification

or

b - Stored my details illegally

maybe both?

I want to take this to the county court, can anyone here suggest the best way forward?

Without knowledge of what this purchase is, we can only hazard a guess as to whether it is some dating site or other internet site, that took payment after the two day free trial!

meer53

Taking them to county court for what ?

agarnett

Blackbeard_of_Perranporth wrote: »

Without knowledge of what this purchase is, we can only hazard a guess as to whether it is some dating site or other internet site, that took payment after the two day free trial!

How is that a useful observation, exactly? No don't answer.

CPA's should have been abolished years ago, but of course they make the banks too much money for that to happen any time soon.

Have you managed to stop the CPA yet?

Your bank can stop it, but first you have to show them that you have made reasonable attempts to notify the merchant that the contract if there is one is cancelled. Try to identify exactly what you signed up for and use any standard cancellation condition if you can. Otherwise the notification that you are calling time on the contract because of breach of contract and abuse of the CPA, and require reimbursement needs to be punchy, succinct (not my forte, but hopefully yours!) and as factual, logical and reasoned as you can make it. That's because whether it convinces the merchant or not, a copy of it will need to convince the bank that you have done all that is right to try to contact the merchant and stop the CPA rightfully.

Take your copy correspondence to a bank branch and show them that you have tried, and then formally request the bank to cancel the CPA. They may ask you to try one more time and give the merchant a month to respond before taking action of their own.

It is possible if you are completely candid and convincing, that the bank staff might be persuaded to try to chargeback the merchant in order to secure a refund, but that may be less likely than convincing them to stop the CPA.

Once you have presented the evidence to the bank, and because it is not going to happen instantly anyway (unlike cancelling a Direct Debit Authority) it is probably best to confirm that yes the matter should be recorded as a complaint against the bank for providing the means of abuse (although as I said at the beginning, they all do it and are unlikely to give it up anytime soon!).

Remember you can't ask the bank to intervene unless you can demonstrate with evidence that you have tried directly with the merchant or if the abuse of the system is absolutely clear and blatant (which it is unlikely to be in practise, even though it may look it to the untrained eye). Those that exploit the CPA system are often organised clever barstewards.

paragon909

MarkDavidClarkeLondon wrote: »

Hello all

I'm having an issue with a company that has made a request on my debit card - without my knowledge or consent.

I have previously used them for adhoc purchases using a debit card but I've been told by my bank that i have “signed up” - inadvertently - to a continuous payment authority arrangement.

( Oddly enough, previous payments to the company do not show up as CPA or reoccurring )

My understanding of CPA is that it is to be used for regular amounts on set days - like a mobile phone bill or similar. This has never been the case with this company. All payments have been on the day of purchase.

I'm also led to understand that if a CPA is in place and another amount is requested, the requester is by law required to give me notice of the amount being requested.

Hopping back to setting up the CPA, it was probably done when I gave the website permission to store my details.

That said the T&C's on the site don't mention CPA but rather

If you choose a direct payment gateway to complete your purchase, then ******** stores your credit card data. It is encrypted through the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard (PCIDSS). Your purchase transaction data is stored only as long as is necessary to complete your purchase transaction. After that is complete, your purchase transaction information is deleted.

Which I suspect is not being adhered to as they are obviously storing my CVS number somewhere.

so - to cut a long story short - they have either

a - Breached the regs regarding CPA adhoc payment notification

or

b - Stored my details illegally

maybe both?

I want to take this to the county court, can anyone here suggest the best way forward?

Well you used the company before but won't actually say for what, You doubled talked on this part by saying "adhoc purchases" Sounds rather snobby.

But if you feel you have been mistreated and want to sue them.

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview

Not sure you will get to far since it costs money to submit a claim! Clearly if the bank won't help then it is down to you to resolve with the company since you have dealt with them.

eskbanker

MarkDavidClarkeLondon wrote: »

My understanding of CPA is that it is to be used for regular amounts on set days - like a mobile phone bill or similar. This has never been the case with this company. All payments have been on the day of purchase.

I'm also led to understand that if a CPA is in place and another amount is requested, the requester is by law required to give me notice of the amount being requested.

What are the laws you're referring to and where are you getting your understanding from? Your interpretations sound more like the (different) rules governing direct debits - there is information about the difference at http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/recurring-payments

MarkDavidClarkeLondon wrote: »

That said the T&C's on the site don't mention CPA but rather

If you choose a direct payment gateway to complete your purchase, then ******** stores your credit card data. It is encrypted through the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard (PCIDSS). Your purchase transaction data is stored only as long as is necessary to complete your purchase transaction. After that is complete, your purchase transaction information is deleted.

Which I suspect is not being adhered to as they are obviously storing my CVS number somewhere.

The way I read that is that they're distinguishing between card data (that they'll keep) and transaction data (that they won't). The latter will presumably include authorisation codes, etc, but I'd have thought that the CVS number would be within the card data that they say they'll keep.

There's nothing to stop you cancelling the CPA via your bank but that won't address any ongoing obligation to pay the company concerned - they obviously believe they're entitled to take payment so you'll need to get to the bottom of why they think that if you (presumably) don't, as a separate issue from the actual mechanism of making the payment....

mt99

wewould be able to help you better if you gave a little bit more detail about the transactions you have had with the site

for example I know people who have had a CPA problems who have paid £1 for a sample bottle of perfume and then found a month later a big bottle of perfume sent to them and their CPA used to charge £70

alternatively as somebody has mentioned you could have signed up for a free trial eg a dating agency or something else and they are simply taking the next year's membership fee as you didnt cancel

if however it is as you say and that you had just used this site to buy a few things in the same way as say you would have bought a few things from Amazon and then suddenly they charge you for something you haven't ordered wellthat is completely different

as I said if you give us a bit more detail I'm sure we will be able to help you

eskbanker

agarnett wrote: »

Your bank can stop it, but first you have to show them that you have made reasonable attempts to notify the merchant that the contract if there is one is cancelled.

Not according to the FCA: https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/fca-reminds-banks-their-obligations-when-cancelling-continuous-payment

agarnett wrote: »

Once you have presented the evidence to the bank, and because it is not going to happen instantly anyway (unlike cancelling a Direct Debit Authority) it is probably best to confirm that yes the matter should be recorded as a complaint against the bank for providing the means of abuse

That's just nonsense! By all means complain to a bank if you request cancellation and they don't cancel, but the bank isn't doing anything wrong by merely processing a valid CPA, regardless of your opinions about them....

Zanderman

MarkDavidClarkeLondon wrote: »

If you choose a direct payment gateway to complete your purchase, then ******** stores your credit card data. It is encrypted through the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard (PCIDSS). Your purchase transaction data is stored only as long as is necessary to complete your purchase transaction. After that is complete, your purchase transaction information is deleted.

The quote that you're quoting seems to be from a generic Privacy Policy - and isn't appropriate to your case if you've given CPA authority.

If you give CPA the firm can keep your card data and debit the card.. That's the whole point of CPA.

Don't get your hopes up by quoting the wrong terms.

And no they don't have to give notice if what they're doing is within the CPA contract you have signed up to.

mt99

There is a definite difference between a retailer storing your credit card details so that next time you go there it is simpler to check out (for example Amazon does this) and authorising a CPA - you have to do this specifically and expressly with the retailer and it is definitely not the same but just storing your card details

MarkDavidClarkeLondon

Wow - use of vocabulary is snobby? - Who knew?