Fury as Ryanair seats passengers 'rows apart' unless they pay to sit together

scd3scd4

PeacefulWaters wrote: »

Welcome back aggy.

Forever_blowin_bubbles wrote: »

It is not a question of simple disagreement based on preference. Airlines like Ryanair who are deliberately splitting up families and travel companions are in my opinion breaking more than one law:

1. They are unnecessarily increasing the likely emergency evacuation time if an evacuation needs to be attempted
2. They are indulging in a misleading and aggressive commercial practice

In the first case they are increasing the likelihood that multiple split pairs and larger groups will delay exiting the aircraft until they are sure the rest of their party are safely able to evacuate.

In the second they are selling tickets on the basis of a headline price that can only be achieved if travel companions agree to sit apart, and because the average passenger has no real idea about the safety implications if they do sit rows apart in event of evacuation, and cannot ever have a proper idea of it unless they acquire detailed industry or human behavioral knowledge, the practice is both misleading of an average consumer, and also aggressive for similar reasons. Faced with a new decision that the average consumer has generally never had to make before in their experience, the average consumer is likely to behave in one of two ways, neither of which is safe for the average consumer i.e.:

1. they employ an experienced MSE'ers view like Pollycat i.e. to make the wrong decision on the basis of knowing about the seat allocation charge and then practising average human behaviour in deciding they don't need to pay it, or
2. to make the mistake of thinking there is every chance of getting free seats together by presuming that the airline's so called "random" seat allocation policy has not changed (which is what Ryanair have apparently said, but which seems to have been roundly already dismissed as an untruth via tens or hundreds or thousands of passenger reports over the last month or two.

In either case, a or b, the chances are that in an emergency, both types of average consumer will be anxious to delay to see that their travel companions are safe before they evacuate the aircraft, thereby unnecessarily endangering themselves and everyone else on board.

And on that bombshell ...

Great post.


People react in a certain way when frightened and under pressure. Even more so when family, friends, the old or young children are involved. Airlines study in detail how planes are evacuated and how people behave even using video cameras for re-enactment. I wonder if this policy makes the situation more dangerous?

Murphy_The_Cat

I've just had a look at my Ryanair flight to recheck the seat selection charge - it's £2.00 to select the seat.

People aren't exactly being extorted by Ryanair over this.

CraigWBaker

On Thursday last week I flew back with Ryanair, sat down as usual and there were 2 families standing. Both Mom's with toddlers. We were then asked by staff to give up a seat with three people, so those 2 Mom's could sit with their kids! Unreal. Of course we did as they were toddlers. Ryanair did not care about it. That really is not on, kids should be allocated with their parents

IAmWales

CraigWBaker wrote: »

On Thursday last week I flew back with Ryanair, sat down as usual and there were 2 families standing. Both Mom's with toddlers. We were then asked by staff to give up a seat with three people, so those 2 Mom's could sit with their kids! Unreal. Of course we did as they were toddlers. Ryanair did not care about it. That really is not on, kids should be allocated with their parents

That makes no sense. Adults flying with children have to prebook their seats.

Pollycat

Forever_blowin_bubbles wrote: »

Not my style. Ryanair for example, is not domiciled in UK, yet dominates European routes from UK. That can be a good thing and I have not shied from praising them on certain behaviours. However, I fundamentally disagree with their new seat allocation policy. I consider it unsafe, and because it is obviously less safe than before, it both goes against their chosen strapline "Always Getting Better" and it is patently unlawful to introduce an unsafe practice in any industry which directly affects an unsuspecting public, where none existed previously.

So no, I am not impotent to the extent I have only one choice i.e. to inconvenience myself and walk away. My style is to expose the wrongdoing in an attempt to help guide misguided corporate types to truly change things for the better i.e. for the public good.

Have I got this right?

You "fundamentally disagree with their new seat allocation policy" because you feel it is unsafe but still intend to fly with them?
Yes?

What are you proactively doing - apart from posting on a public forum - to "expose the wrongdoing in an attempt to help guide misguided corporate types to truly change things for the better i.e. for the public good"?

Forever_blowin_bubbles wrote: »

Try Googling Consumer Protection Regulations aggressive commercial practice, and airline emergency evacuation or CAA seating allocation.

I have.
Noting there about 'laws' as far as I can see.

Maybe you could provide a specific link.

Pollycat

Forever_blowin_bubbles wrote: »

Yes. It isn't quite so unsafe for me because I know how I might improve my lot in optimising an emergency evacuation without treading on people's heads, particularly as 9 times out of ten I still seem to be able to smile and blag a seat (or even two or three!) for free in an emergency exit row. Plus I do know the layout of a 737-800 with my eyes closed and/or nose to the floor. If push came to shove, being the public spirited chap I am, I do wonder however if I might endanger myself however in trying to help others who'd lost their companions.

You're a hero (at least on paper).

Forever_blowin_bubbles wrote: »

MSE sways public opinion far more than any newspaper or periodical, doesn't it? Times change.

Does it really?
Who told you that?

Forever_blowin_bubbles wrote: »

What are you proactively doing in the public good other than knocking my informed opinion? I don't just sit at a chair and guess and Google a bit. I have the sort of life which means I'm still out there soaking up experience daily and using my judgement rather than fearing to judge, Pollycat. You might not be so lucky, but don't knock my views just because they aren't delivered in a neat box of easy colour-by-numbers routes to undisputed enlightenment! You might need to create and join a few dots yourself, unless you are arguing for the status quo and the non-rocking of boats?

I've never put myself forward as doing anything proactively so why would you ask what I'm doing?

Forever_blowin_bubbles wrote: »

Current day European aviation is wall to wall safety law. How the law is interpreted / bent / enforced on a daily basis is another question. Do you need to see a specific word Yes or No on the question of whether this type of seat allocation satisfies safety rules? Google some more down the lines I suggested. IAA might not be too sure, but CAA seem pretty sure ... they put the word "No" in a blue box centre page as I mentioned in my last post on the other thread ...

Give me a week and I might be able to post one for you ...

One word:
"guidelines".

richardw wrote: »

If you read the CAA pages http://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/On-board/Seating-allocation/

Note '...should be the aim....' and '...should ideally....'

Should implies there is no law. OMG

^^^^ My point exactly.

alwaystravelling

I recently flew with 3 others on a Ryanair flight to Nuremberg. All of us were scattered around the aircraft, outbound and inbound, as were members of every other group I spoke to. This policy will not be changed by complaining to Ryanair. They have little regard for negative customer feedback.

The company makes it clear that it allocates seats randomly, unless you pay to sit together. However, if it can be demonstrated that the allocation of seats to passengers who check in on the same booking (groups), is in fact NOT random, but is done in a way which would inevitably result in those groups being broken up, then it could be that Ryanair is in breach of Trade Description legislation. It would not matter whether the company allocated middle seats first, window seats first, or even seats by row number. The point is that the allocation would not be random, as stated by Ryanair. The 1968 act makes it an offence for a trader to make false or misleading statements about goods or services. Perhaps complaints in this direction might be worth pursuing, to force Ryanair into a full and honest statement of their seat allocation policy.
In the mean time, this policy, and the way the company views its customers in general, demonstrates yet again why Ryanair should be called a cheap airline, and by "cheap", I do not mean low cost.

ericthelobster

I've just booked flights for 4, for a month's time. Outgoing with Jet2.com, inbound with Easyjet. As I was just into the 30-day online check-in window, I checked in for both flights. Both offered me seat selection for a fee, and as usual, I declined.

With Easyjet, we've ended up with 4 seats in a row - fine. With Jet2, however, despite the fact that the vast majority of the seating plan was still 'green', ie up for grabs, we ended up with 4 seats with none any closer than 5 rows apart. No way is that even random; it's perfectly obvious looking at the seating plan that it's deliberate, and designed to make us cough up £13 a head extra to sit together. I'm not paying up; we're 4 adults and it's not a big deal, I just resent the cynicism of the airline.

Pollycat

ericthelobster wrote: »

I've just booked flights for 4, for a month's time. Outgoing with Jet2.com, inbound with Easyjet. As I was just into the 30-day online check-in window, I checked in for both flights. Both offered me seat selection for a fee, and as usual, I declined.

With Easyjet, we've ended up with 4 seats in a row - fine. With Jet2, however, despite the fact that the vast majority of the seating plan was still 'green', ie up for grabs, we ended up with 4 seats with none any closer than 5 rows apart. No way is that even random; it's perfectly obvious looking at the seating plan that it's deliberate, and designed to make us cough up £13 a head extra to sit together. I'm not paying up; we're 4 adults and it's not a big deal, I just resent the cynicism of the airline.

One wonders why there hasn't been a " Fury as Jet2 seats passengers 'rows apart' unless they pay to sit together" thread (unless I've missed it). :whistle:

IAmWales

alwaystravelling wrote: »

I recently flew with 3 others on a Ryanair flight to Nuremberg. All of us were scattered around the aircraft, outbound and inbound, as were members of every other group I spoke to. This policy will not be changed by complaining to Ryanair. They have little regard for negative customer feedback.

The company makes it clear that it allocates seats randomly, unless you pay to sit together. However, if it can be demonstrated that the allocation of seats to passengers who check in on the same booking (groups), is in fact NOT random, but is done in a way which would inevitably result in those groups being broken up, then it could be that Ryanair is in breach of Trade Description legislation. It would not matter whether the company allocated middle seats first, window seats first, or even seats by row number. The point is that the allocation would not be random, as stated by Ryanair. The 1968 act makes it an offence for a trader to make false or misleading statements about goods or services. Perhaps complaints in this direction might be worth pursuing, to force Ryanair into a full and honest statement of their seat allocation policy.
In the mean time, this policy, and the way the company views its customers in general, demonstrates yet again why Ryanair should be called a cheap airline, and by "cheap", I do not mean low cost.

Can you point to where it says seats are allocated randomly on the website please? All I could find was this:

If you do not wish to select and purchase your preferred allocated seat onboard then between 4 days and 2 hours before each booked flight you can go to online check in and be allocated a seat free of charge.

Edit: found it, "we will randomly assign one to you". This is what they are doing, they're assigning whatever is left after those that have paid.