private road - public liability

theartfullodger

well there seem to be a few businesses doing specialist insurance policies for just this...
http://www.privateroads.co.uk/basic-policy
&
https://www.ansell.co.uk/personal--business-insurance/residents-association-insurance/private-road-insurance.aspx

Clearly taxi driver CAN make a claim (I CAN sue Mother T for being a terrible PM...) but in both cases the outcome is uncertain..

In your shoes I'd get residents assoc to have a fund for repairs & insurance & bung up some signs...

Private road eh!

EachPenny

ellie27 wrote: »

I would think it's a 'enter at your own risk' - noone should be on the private road anyway.

Unfortunately for some, it doesn't always work like that. A road being 'private' doesn't mean no access to other people.

How for example would you get your post, online shopping etc delivered if nobody other than the owners of the 'private road' were allowed to use it?

Cakeguts

Depends why he drove down it. If he did it because it was a short cut then that is his fault and he shouldn't have been there. The point about home shopping and post is that the person whose post it is is giving the person delivering it permission to use the road. So if was to pick someone up or drop them off then he may have a point that the road should have been kept in better condition but if he just decided to use the road then no.

EachPenny

Cakeguts wrote: »

Depends why he drove down it. If he did it because it was a short cut then that is his fault and he shouldn't have been there. The point about home shopping and post is that the person whose post it is is giving the person delivering it permission to use the road. So if was to pick someone up or drop them off then he may have a point that the road should have been kept in better condition but if he just decided to use the road then no.

I think the problem might be the duty of care - the reason why someone is using a road becomes a marginal point if they suffer injury or damage as a result of defects in the road.

I'm not sure that in law the postman or delivery driver is actually being given permission to use the road - unless they are prevented from using it by a gate or barrier and have to call to have the gate opened.

'Private' roads are a legal fuzzy area, the thing which is clear is whether the road is maintainable at public expense. What people usually call a 'private road' is usually a road not maintainable at public expense, but that doesn't mean the public cannot use it, and also doesn't mean they cannot make a claim against the owners for damage or injury caused.

moneyistooshorttomention

ellie27 wrote: »

I live on a private road.

I would think it's a 'enter at your own risk' - noone should be on the private road anyway.

We have no public liability insurance for our road.

The language here is confusing.

You say "private road".

I presume you actually mean a road that is perfectly standard, except that it's never been adopted - ie an "unadopted road"?

moneyistooshorttomention

bouicca21 wrote: »

One end of my road is unadopted. When the road was first constructed each property was made liable to maintain it (but with no clear arrangements about how this was to be done). The potholes get filled in occasionally but many of the residents (there are several hundred of them) refuse to contribute to the cost. Under the circumstances I very much doubt there is a public liability policy in place. The road is so bad that avoiding one pothole would tip you into another. Most drivers just avoid it but a pedestrian could easily break a limb if walking up there at night despite there being streetlights.

It is commonly said that the property owners would be liable for damage to cars and/or persons. Urban myth perhaps, but it is a deeply held belief.

According to my reading on this - I came to the conclusion that with an unadopted road that didn't have a "road owner" then the house owners personally would be liable IF they are a "frontager". That being that they would be deemed to "own" the section of road immediately in front of their own house forward of their house up to the mid-line of the road. The house opposite them would be "frontager" to the other half of the road in front of them iyswim.

I can certainly think of an unadopted road I know of where I know there isn't a named "owner" of the road and therefore everyone seems to have come to the conclusion that frontagers are responsible (ie could be held responsible) for "their bit" (the section in front of their own house out to the halfway mark of the road). Thus one walks along that road and can see clearly "That one has done the bit they are frontager to and so has that one and so has that one etc etc - but that frontager hasnt and then further up there is another frontager that hasnt". The road has clearly recently been re-surfaced - specifically avoiding the bits outside the houses of frontagers that havent paid towards it. It's obvious that the concern has been to protect frontagers from insurance claims - rather than to get the road re-surfaced per se iyswim (with all those missed-out bits).

moneyistooshorttomention

davidmcn wrote: »

May well be covered by your home insurance (in the same way that it covers for e.g. slips on your garden path).

My reading seemed to indicate that it wouldnt be. That the insurance of individual householders would only cover their own personal territory (ie their house and their garden). But wouldn't cover the communal road (even any bit they are frontager to).

The question would be as to whether someone that was officially "road owner" could get this covered under their personal household insurance - and it looked to me as if they couldnt (unless they had taken out extra insurance cover specifically for their road). I came to the conclusion I seriously wouldnt want to be an official "road owner" of an unadopted road and, if I was, then I would have taken out that specific insurance to cover myself in this litigious day and age.

As a frontager - then one can choose whether to take the risk - knowing that claims could only be made against one if the accident occurred on the specific bit of road one was frontager to. But if an accident occurred on a bit someone else was frontager to - "notta ma problem".

Guest101

G_M wrote: »

If someone (taxi) drives down a poorly maintained private road, and their car is damaged by a pothole, can they make a valid claim against the owners of the road?

Yes, if the public have open access to it, however just like with 'public' roads, the owner would have to be negligent for a claim to be possible.


IE they must've known about the damaged road and not taken steps to fix it

Guest101

ellie27 wrote: »

I live on a private road.

I would think it's a 'enter at your own risk' - noone should be on the private road anyway.

We have no public liability insurance for our road.

Unfortunately you're incorrect.

bouicca21

A nice range of opinions. Do the property owners have any kind of covenant on their deeds giving them formal responsibility for the road? Is there a residents group that has that responsibility?

Clearly we are going to need GM to keep us updated on what transpires. I somehow doubt that tea and cake will substitute for proper legal advice.