Unsure whether compensation applies: rescheduled or cancelled?

Vauban

maralions wrote: »

Sorry wrote my reply before I saw this.

This is what I'm concerned about.

However, they haven't advised me to change anything about my first ticket - I am still booked to fly on the 2nd and have a layover of about 35 hours. All they have done is sent me an email telling me that my second flight has been 'rescheduled' (actually cancelled) for the 3rd instead of the 2nd.

If I keep the original ticket for the first leg and cope with the layover, will I have a claim?

Probably not, unfortunately. Where the delay or cancellation occurs on a flight entirely outside of the EU (and on an EU carrier) the consensus is that you're not covered by the Regulation. (There's no binding case law on this, and its arguably a bit ambiguous, but it does seem to be what most of the lawyers believe - I don't think a NWNF lawyer would take on your case, for example. Sorry not to be more positive.)

maralions

Vauban wrote: »

Probably not, unfortunately. Where the delay or cancellation occurs on a flight entirely outside of the EU (and on an EU carrier) the consensus is that you're not covered by the Regulation. (There's no binding case law on this, and its arguably a bit ambiguous, but it does seem to be what most of the lawyers believe - I don't think a NWNF lawyer would take on your case, for example. Sorry not to be more positive.)

Oh that's so disappointing! Do you have any recommendations for me? Should I just go with what is easiest for me (change the outbound to the 3rd to avoid the long layover)? Or if I do this, am I then hindering myself from getting any compensation?

Do you think I should ask the airline for any compensation for cutting my holiday short by a day and disrupting all of my plans once there? I had domestic travel planned and now it is going to cost me a lot more to get organized to my safari destination.

If I don't change my outbound flight, would I be within my rights to demand a hotel for the 30h layover and also money for a visa and travel to enter Istanbul?

JPears

You could also enquire about an alternative flight? Other airlines do the same route on that day.
I am always of the opinion that, presumably, you booked your flight to go to Nairobi? The fact that there is a change of aircraft/flights at some point should, IMHO, be irrelevant in terms of reg 261/2004. The crux is wether a judge would see it the same way, should you progress with seeking compensation and end up going to court.
It is an unusual case, and one where the regualtion is a bit vague, leaving the legal questions open to interpretation.
As you say, this is a major disruption to your holiday with very little notice.

Alan_Bowen

I am afraid I agree with Vauban that the airline will push back on the claim no matter which day you travel but unless you want to have time in Istanbul, and on the basis they are prepared to move your London flight forward so you do not have to spend a night in Turkey, I very much doubt they will offer anything to cover your costs whilst you are there, because it is entirely your own choice.

It is a fact of life that Turkish Airlines has been seriously affected by the terrorist activity in their home country and many people are avoiding them altogether, despite their excellent quality of service. The attack at Istanbul Airport last June means they having to reduce the number of long haul flights they operate due to lack of demand

maralions

JPears wrote: »

You could also enquire about an alternative flight? Other airlines do the same route on that day.
I am always of the opinion that, presumably, you booked your flight to go to Nairobi? The fact that there is a change of aircraft/flights at some point should, IMHO, be irrelevant in terms of reg 261/2004. The crux is wether a judge would see it the same way, should you progress with seeking compensation and end up going to court.
It is an unusual case, and one where the regualtion is a bit vague, leaving the legal questions open to interpretation.
As you say, this is a major disruption to your holiday with very little notice.

Yes, I booked the flight to go to Nairobi.

They are being very difficult with me and not responding to my request/complaint. I have no way of changing the flight as they are passing me to different departments.

Do you think I should ask them to book me on a different airline?

Thanks for everyone's help. This is turning into a bit of a nightmare.
Sara

maralions

Looking into this a bit further. I know there is some confusion about connecting flights, but the article states:

"(h) ‘final destination’ means the destination on the ticket
presented at the check-in counter or, in the case of directly
connecting flights, the destination of the last flight; alternative
connecting flights available shall not be taken into
account if the original planned arrival time is respected;"

Also this: http://www.internationallawoffice.com/Newsletters/Aviation/Turkey/HERDEMCo/Passenger-rights-for-delayed-or-cancelled-flights

Which relates to this article, which seems to be specific to airlines of Turkish origin: I downloaded this from the Turkish Airlines website:

http://www.turkishairlines.com/download/shy_passenger.pdf

I would think that I am covered then as it appears that Turkish-based airlines are now covered under similar rules to EU as of 2012?

And if not... on my connecting flight, I assume that I do not go to the check in counter for the second flight, only the boarding gate? Therefore, the ticket presented at the check-in counter is Birmingham - Nairobi, and therefore the destination is Nairobi, so I am covered?

How would they argue otherwise within this clause?

Thoughts???!!

Vauban

Maralions: this issue of connecting flights has been discussed extensively on this forum, including why the Regulations don't cover you if the delay occurs on the sector wholly outside the EU - even if you are on a directly connecting ticket. You can search for this discussion, if interested.

I didn't know that the Turks had, separately, written into their domestic law a version of 261/04. Interesting. You should try writing to the airline, and to the Turkish National Enforcement Body (CAA equivalent) if you get no joy. But if the airline says no, and the Turkish CAA do nothing, then you don't have many options - since you won't presumably be wanting to initiate a legal claim under Turkish processes? They would be no other way to force their hand.

maralions

Thanks Vauban. I did do a search for connecting flights but couldn't find anything relating to my situation (i.e. the second leg not the first).

I sent all of this to them in yet another message to show that I knew the law (I have been ringing them and emailing them twice a day) and they have now said that they have issued an EMD of 600 EUROS in compensation.

This is a really good resolution and after reading the Turkish Airlines horror stories I'm surprised this has happened without a fight!

I would recommend anyone who has had problems with Turkish to not be put off by their attitudes and attempt to fob you off and just keep at it.

Is it worth doing a post/notifying the MSE post writers that there is a document that basically extends the EU laws to Turkey? I know Istanbul is a popular connection.