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Backdated fit note from GP?
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surreysaver wrote: »You should just be able to rock up at any GP surgery and register as a temporary patient.
I'm sorry but I really disagree with this. It is potentially very harmful, as well as massively inefficient. And I think you can already do it if you are on holiday etc, which seems fine, but we shouldn't be advocating it more.
There are some situations in which any GP might do, i.e. easily fixable new acute illnesses / injuries in people who are otherwise well.
However, anyone with a chronic illness or on regular medication should be seen by someone with full access to their medical history, or they won't get the best treatment, and could potentially be harmed by a medication that interacts with another they are on. It's no good saying that people should remember their own medical records: trust me, I deal with it every day, people don't. (maybe you will say that you do: super. I do too, as it happens. We are not the norm).
Furthermore, symptoms are often vague and we can't expect people to know that they have an easily fixable new acute illness before they even see a doctor. Otherwise why bother? And sometimes a diagnosis emerges over time as symptom X (mentioned in 1 visit) is combined with symptom Y (mentioned in another), or progression / deterioration can only be seen over multiple appointments.
The majority of GP appointments are used by a minority of people - the sick (obviously) and vulnerable, often at extremes of age, who aren't travelling widely. Sure, there are some who would benefit from being able to pop into a GP near their work, for example, but their need probably isn't that great and they probably have to accept that. There are private GP places in cities if you are really cash-rich time-poor. It's similar to calls for weekend GP appointments: the only people who really want them are people who work during the week. They may be vociferous in expressing their political demands, but they do tend to be quite well, and pilot studies have shown that weekend appointments are underused and with high non-attendance rates, and so not worth it.0 -
Hi Luna,
I'm sorry for misinterpreting your comment about GP session times.
With regard to a sick note, I have lost track a bit of when you need it, but if I were you I would call up tomorrow, not Tuesday, as the first day after a bank holiday will always be hectic. Or call today and ask for an urgent appt tomorrow. Be clear that you have an acute problem (not just usual symptoms) and do need to be seen. Even a telephone consultation if that is an option might help?
I agree with others who have said that drs won't write retrospective sick notes. I am sure that out of hours drs can and do write sick notes, but they may refuse to see you _just_ for that. It would be much more appropriate to see your own GP.
Best of luck.0 -
However, anyone with a chronic illness or on regular medication should be seen by someone with full access to their medical history, or they won't get the best treatment, and could potentially be harmed by a medication that interacts with another they are on.
From how I understand it, the OP's medication / treatment can wait. It is the sick note they need now. A temporary GP can sort that out. Surely seeing a temporary GP now is better than waiting 4 weeks to see the patient's own one?
And no point whinging its inefficient - if the NHS was more efficient, these situations wouldn't arise. Surely seeing a temporary GP is no different than someone who doesn't have a GP seeing a temporary one?
And my advice is only one option that it might be worth considering - the same as yours. No harm in giving the OP more than one option.I consider myself to be a male feminist. Is that allowed?0 -
How about this suggestion -
I don't know where you live, OP, but there will be a Clinical Commissioning Group who are in charge of the GP Surgeries in your area. The CCG will have a PALs department. Email the PALS department, just outlining your issue with your GP. They will contact your GP, and your problem will likely be sorted out tout suite. I did this when I had a minor issue - the practice manager got involved straight away with an issue that had been dragging on for months. GPs do not want the CCGs becoming involved with patient issues, so I would suggest going down the PALs route.I consider myself to be a male feminist. Is that allowed?0 -
I agree with others who have said that drs won't write retrospective sick notes.
They should write retrospective sick notes. Do GP surgeries keep records of patient appointments they've had to decline? If so, then surely a doctor should be able to backdate a sicknote to that point. Otherwise people will just book appointments for the sake of it rather than waiting until the last day they can self-certify.I consider myself to be a male feminist. Is that allowed?0 -
surreysaver wrote: »From how I understand it, the OP's medication / treatment can wait. It is the sick note they need now. A temporary GP can sort that out. Surely seeing a temporary GP now is better than waiting 4 weeks to see the patient's own one?
And no point whinging its inefficient - if the NHS was more efficient, these situations wouldn't arise. Surely seeing a temporary GP is no different than someone who doesn't have a GP seeing a temporary one?
And my advice is only one option that it might be worth considering - the same as yours. No harm in giving the OP more than one option.
Sorry, I thought you were advocating that everyone should just go to whatever GP they wanted whenever; I didn't read it as specific advice to the OP.
As a one-off I agree it is an option for the OP, and I wouldn't 'whinge' about it being inefficient in those circumstances. I would however contend that although the OP will need a sick note if they were to be off work next week, what they really need is something to improve their health so that they do not need to be off sick next week. Such a treatment may not exist (especially if work stress is the exacerbating factor), but seeing as their symptoms seem related to chronic conditions they would be best served been seen at their usual practice where there will be a record of previous treatments and disease course.0 -
surreysaver wrote: »How about this suggestion -
I don't know where you live, OP, but there will be a Clinical Commissioning Group who are in charge of the GP Surgeries in your area. The CCG will have a PALs department. Email the PALS department, just outlining your issue with your GP. They will contact your GP, and your problem will likely be sorted out tout suite. I did this when I had a minor issue - the practice manager got involved straight away with an issue that had been dragging on for months. GPs do not want the CCGs becoming involved with patient issues, so I would suggest going down the PALs route.
Yes well, like a lot of things, kicking up a fuss when it isn't really justified may get you what you want but it will ultimately be at somebody else's detriment.
The GP's primary function is to treat the sick and, when appropriate, refer the patient to an appropriate specialist. Writing out sick notes, quite correctly, has a far lower priority.
Ultimately if the OP really doesn't feel well enough to go to work they will have to stay at home. The GP writing out a certificate won't actually make them feel any better!
If it really is that hard to get an appointment all the OP can do is keep a careful log and explain the situation to their employer who hopefully will show some understanding. if they won't and a NHS appointment can't be obtained then Luna will have to consider a private GP.0 -
surreysaver wrote: »They should write retrospective sick notes. Do GP surgeries keep records of patient appointments they've had to decline? If so, then surely a doctor should be able to backdate a sicknote to that point. Otherwise people will just book appointments for the sake of it rather than waiting until the last day they can self-certify.
But a sick note has to be contemporaneous, as it is you giving your professional opinion that a person is too sick to do their work. You base it on the patient you see in front of you, including what they say, of course. You can write it to cover time in the future - e.g. if someone is at the start of an arduous chemotherapy course, or if you know that a particular operation generally takes a certain period of time to recover from. But writing it for last week carries no more weight than the patient themselves just self-certifying, and the only thing you have to go on is what they say.
I do appreciate the difficulties that this creates when people need fit notes. I would happily write to an employer that someone had been trying and unable to get an appointment sooner than the one they actually got, and that they reported that their symptoms had started whenever before I issued the fit note, but it would be very unprofessional for me to state that they were unfit for work at a time when I hadn't seen them. If it later transpired that they were on holiday or something I would be up in front of the GMC, for sure.
I do not know the numbers (I will ask a colleague for their experience) but I'd wager that only a small proportion of urgent GP appointments are needed _just_ for fit notes. As already discussed a lot of GP attendees do not work, and those that do usually want treatment for their illness, not just documentation.0 -
Sorry, I thought you were advocating that everyone should just go to whatever GP they wanted whenever; I didn't read it as specific advice to the OP.
Well, I am responding to the OP's thread, so that should be taken as advice for the OP
But its something anyone can do if they want. For example they might not want their regular GP to know something; they might be on holiday somewhere; they might not be registered with a GP.I consider myself to be a male feminist. Is that allowed?0 -
Undervalued wrote: »Yes well, like a lot of things, kicking up a fuss when it isn't really justified may get you what you want but it will ultimately be at somebody else's detriment.
The GP's primary function is to treat the sick and, when appropriate, refer the patient to an appropriate specialist. Writing out sick notes, quite correctly, has a far lower priority.
Ultimately if the OP really doesn't feel well enough to go to work they will have to stay at home. The GP writing out a certificate won't actually make them feel any better!
If it really is that hard to get an appointment all the OP can do is keep a careful log and explain the situation to their employer who hopefully will show some understanding. if they won't and a NHS appointment can't be obtained then Luna will have to consider a private GP.
I kind-of agree with you, but I am also in favour of everybody complaining (via appropriate channels) when they can't get the services they need. The more complaints about this sort of thing, the greater ammunition for showing how under-resourced healthcare is?
And in an ideal world GPs would be free to focus on the sick. But it does seem as though the system has been designed to require sick notes, and so, while maybe frustrating, I do think it ought be done at the time they need doing.0
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