Ownership amongst the young

GreatApe

Having checked the figures its closer to 75% of pensioners own. Using 1.75 children per women figure it breaks down to roughly

75% will inherit 1.33 homes + other assets
21% will inherit 0.67 homes + other assets
6% will inherit 0 homes + probably nothing

I am talking about those with UK born grandparents. First generation migrants aren't so lucky (and even second gen ones) as they don't have this generational wealth

This is the reasons the left always fail. Every few years I read how the old right wing will die off and the young left wing will usher in a permanent left wing government. Only it doesn't happens because the left wing poor kids turn right wing when they inherit wealth and are then not so keen to see it taxed or appropriated

GreatApe

economic wrote: »

All of course true only if no radical change in inheritance tax in the future.....

For all the talk of wanting a left wing social Utopia our biological wiring is such that we will rather see two of someone else's kids fail or die than one of our own. Or if its some poor kids in Africa we would rather spend £500 on our kids iphones rather than get them a Samsung 2nd rate phone for £100 and donate the £400 difference to a charity that can save a child's life! When put like that it makes me feel a bit !!!! but almost all of us do this withiut even thinking about it.

So I doubt very much that there will be serious punitive Inheritances taxes that could not be avoided.

Also as pointed out its a cup 94% full 6% empty kind of problem. It really isn't a problem its a very great feature of a rich developed country that we can help the next generation a great deal.

My personal view is that the government should offer a 95% discount on social homes (up from the current 70% for flats and 50% for houses) and the £105k limit should be increased to £200k. That would allow a huge number of poor people to buy their social homes (they could buy a £200k social house for just £10k). It will help them and it will help their kids and grand kids. Oddly its the left that think giving poor people assets is evil.

ukcarper

economic wrote: »

All of course true only if no radical change in inheritance tax in the future.....

No but if you need care in your own home that inheritance could be reduced by a considerable amount.

ukcarper

GreatApe wrote: »

But people have two pairs of grand parents. Using your 70% that gives a 9% chance that both side of grand parents do not own. So a 91% chance that you will get at least half of a house.

I used the figure of 80% of grandparents owning their own home. So a 96% chance at least one of the two pairs of grandparents own.

Your assuming that those grandparents will leave money to grandchildren and won't need care.

We've gone though all this before and you just can't accept that your circle of friends is not typical.

i find in hard to understand why you and windowchange hold such polarised views when the truth is some where in between

Look at this it's referring to 2010 so figure of £10k will be higher, but 1.8% of adults received more than £10k over to years. Multiply by 10 = 18% so over 20 years 82% received less than £10k http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/was/wealth-in-great-britain-wave-2/inheritance-in-great-britain--2008-10/report--inheritance-in-great-britain--2008-10.html

ukcarper

GreatApe wrote: »

Having checked the figures its closer to 75% of pensioners own. Using 1.75 children per women figure it breaks down to roughly

75% will inherit 1.33 homes + other assets
21% will inherit 0.67 homes + other assets
6% will inherit 0 homes + probably nothing

I am talking about those with UK born grandparents. First generation migrants aren't so lucky (and even second gen ones) as they don't have this generational wealth

This is the reasons the left always fail. Every few years I read how the old right wing will die off and the young left wing will usher in a permanent left wing government. Only it doesn't happens because the left wing poor kids turn right wing when they inherit wealth and are then not so keen to see it taxed or appropriated

Your assuming all grandchildren have a surviving grandparent which is not the case.

GreatApe

ukcarper wrote: »

Your assuming all grandchildren have a surviving grandparent which is not the case.

Why does that matter?

If grandma and grandpa died age 60 just before you were born then your parents got grandmas house when you were age zero. So not only will you get grandma house when you hit 30 but you will also get 30 years of rent from grandma house.

As for your survey data I simply do not believe it I'd like to see the raw data and also specifically data for UK born persons with UK born grandparents because obviously migrants don't have it as easy. It also of course does not include gifts which are very significant. I know a good number of 'kids' that were given homes outright when they got married or significant monetary sums enough to buy outright or with a mortgage. If they were asked they would say they didn't get any inheritence their parents and grandparents are still alive but of course the gifts they got are early Inheritances in all but name.

Also people lie to surveys like the 'shy tory' effect. If someone surveyed me about gifts and Inheritences I would tell them to go f.off they would then move onto the next person and miss the bias in the question.

So its better to look at actual estates left and we have been through this before about £100 billion is left annually and to a very significant number of people.

So I still stand by my belief that a very high proportion of UK born children with UK born grandparents will receive large Inheritances including homes.

As I've said before out of over a hundred families I know only a handful of the truly dysfunctional ones will not leave large Inheritences.

You and bag of wind can't have it both ways. If the old have huge amounts of housing wealth which they do and large amounts of non housing which they do and if they and their kids have fewer than 2 children per women then a lot of wealth has to be passed down and it gets concentrated. The only get out card is if significant numbers of grandparents spend huge sums living for years in care homes but as we know that's not true either. Most die without seeing the inside of a care home and most who go into care homes don't stay in them long. If grandma has £1 million and the care home costs £40k a year and she lives for 5 years in the care home yoy still get £800k Inheritence. Actually the return on the capital is likely to pay for the care home so your likely to get the full £1m. But as noted not many grandmas go ibtk care and not many survive long in a care home so its not something that will impact most people

ukcarper

GreatApe wrote: »

Why does that matter?

If grandma and grandpa died age 60 just before you were born then your parents got grandmas house when you were age zero. So not only will you get grandma house when you hit 30 but you will also get 30 years of rent from grandma house.

As for your survey data I simply do not believe it I'd like to see the raw data and also specifically data for UK born persons with UK born grandparents because obviously migrants don't have it as easy. It also of course does not include gifts which are very significant. I know a good number of 'kids' that were given homes outright when they got married or significant monetary sums enough to buy outright or with a mortgage. If they were asked they would say they didn't get any inheritence their parents and grandparents are still alive but of course the gifts they got are early Inheritances in all but name.

Also people lie to surveys like the 'shy tory' effect. If someone surveyed me about gifts and Inheritences I would tell them to go f.off they would then move onto the next person and miss the bias in the question.

So its better to look at actual estates left and we have been through this before about £100 billion is left annually and to a very significant number of people.

So I still stand by my belief that a very high proportion of UK born children with UK born grandparents will receive large Inheritances including homes.

As I've said before out of over a hundred families I know only a handful of the truly dysfunctional ones will not leave large Inheritences.

You and bag of wind can't have it both ways. If the old have huge amounts of housing wealth which they do and large amounts of non housing which they do and if they and their kids have fewer than 2 children per women then a lot of wealth has to be passed down and it gets concentrated. The only get out card is if significant numbers of grandparents spend huge sums living for years in care homes but as we know that's not true either. Most die without seeing the inside of a care home and most who go into care homes don't stay in them long. If grandma has £1 million and the care home costs £40k a year and she lives for 5 years in the care home yoy still get £800k Inheritence. Actually the return on the capital is likely to pay for the care home so your likely to get the full £1m. But as noted not many grandmas go ibtk care and not many survive long in a care home so its not something that will impact most people

I'm not sure where you got figures for grandparents.

What about link I provided I the 2 years preceding 2010 only 3.6% of people inherited more than £1000 and half of them got less than £10,0000. You are as bad as windoffcha for opposite reason and you don't seem to be able to see it. By the way that Is ONS data.

economic

i myself am first generation born in uk. my parents and their parents are migrants, yet i receive significant gifts and am expected to receive significant inheritances. its actually makes me a bit lazy!

ukcarper

economic wrote: »

i myself am first generation born in uk. my parents and their parents are migrants, yet i receive significant gifts and am expected to receive significant inheritances. its actually makes me a bit lazy!

You are a lucky and far from the norm.

GreatApe

ukcarper wrote: »

No but if you need care in your own home that inheritance could be reduced by a considerable amount.

Firstly most don't need care homes. Secondly Its not that straightforward.

A pensioner gets a state pension and many older folk also have final salary pensions or an annuity. Those keep paying out while alive. So you should minus these pension payments from the cost of care to get a closer value of the 'actual cost'. Also possibly the rental return on the vacated home.