Britannia Parking PCN

Fruitcake

If there is a requirement to pay at this car park or register a VRN somehow, or a chance of getting another PCN, I would suggest that the driver should park elsewhere.

It matters not for whom you intend to vote. We need to get the volume of complaints to MPs and the PM up to a level where they realise they need to do something about this.
Tens of thousands of unfair PCNs get issued every year from these unregulated scam companies. Add them all up and that is a huge chunk of voters, and the people who are supposed to run this country need to realise this.
Never mind the grey vote, or yoof vote or whatever, the MPs need to think about the scammed vote.

Umkomaas

Tens of thousands of unfair PCNs get issued every year from these unregulated scam companies. Add them all up and that is a huge chunk of voters, and the people who are supposed to run this country need to realise this.

In fact 4.5 million DVLA accesses by the PPC network. Now if that cohort could be brigaded and fired up, any party of any colour would give them the PPC network on a pitchfork in exchange for their votes.

MetroBot

I will forward a complain to both as well. You have my word.

Fruitcake

tudor.popovici11 wrote: »

I will forward a complain to both as well. You have my word.

Some MPs (not many) are clued up on this scam. Always tell your MP to talk to The Right Honourable Jacob Reese-Mogg MP, as he is an expert in this matter and was very forceful in the recent parliamentary debate on this subject.

MetroBot

Hi

So I've been to the car park and I took photos of everything and a video of how someone would enter the car park.

I've also noticed that it is impossible for someone to know, upon entering the car park, that the car park is equipped with ARNP cameras. Moreover, once you have steered onto the alleyway, it is already too late to turn back as the camera has already snapped a photo of your number plate. The problem is that the signs that say that the car park is payable and equipped with arnp are snakely placed on the opposite building to where a driver would look, which for a driver are basically in a blind spot, very unlikely to be seen by anyone entering.

I've also noticed two entrances to the car park. On one of them, the arnp camera is aimed toward the main street, on the other, it is aimed towards the car park.

From the entrance of the car park and towards the entrance of the block, there is no clear warning that the car park is equipped with arnp cameras.

There are no CCTV cameras apart from one placed above the front door of the block and aimed at the front door.

There is a car park office right next to the entrance of the block housing one person working for either the parking company or the lettings agency. I'm not judging his English but he couldn't tell me exactly. I can assume he is employed by the lettings agency. I also spoke to the man working there and he said that this would be impossible to have happened and if it really did, he advised that the person who received the PCN should contact the lettings agency firstly, on the nearest working day, as they should be able to resolve an issue like this considering they are the ones owning the land..

I could not get hold of a lease or AST as the tenant stated that he was not given one which is highly unlikely, but fraudulent if true, or he has lost it. He agreed though to speak to the landowner himself and in case of further proceedings and if needed, to be a witness.

Let me know if I should upload either photos of the area or a short video from a drivers perspective.

Thank you

MetroBot

Hi

I found this.

The British Parking Association make the following statement in theirs:

21.1) You may use ANPR camera technology to manage, control and enforce parking in private car parks, as long as you do this in a reasonable, consistent and transparent manner. Your signs at the car park must tell drivers that you are using this technology and what you will use the data captured by ANPR cameras for.

The last sentence is the key one: you must state that you are using ANPR and what you will use the data for. Very frequently signs in private car parks might say “car park monitored by ANPR systems”, which satisfies the first part, but it does not explicitly state what for.

As I cannot post an image, I'll write below what the only sign (the one wisely placed in a blind spot) at the 'entrance' states:

"Camera Controlled Pay on Arrival
Terms and Conditions apply
See notices in car park for more details
Private Land
Managed by... (the name of the company)

NO TURNING"

I also have a theoretical question.

What if the driver is from a foreign country and not a resident in the UK?

Umkomaas

The last sentence is the key one: you must state that you are using ANPR and what you will use the data for. Very frequently signs in private car parks might say “car park monitored by ANPR systems”, which satisfies the first part, but it does not explicitly state what for.

For use in your POPLA appeal - not before.

What if the driver is from a foreign country and not a resident in the UK?

PoFA provides for the keeper to supply the name of the driver and an address for service. There is no stipulation that the address for service cannot be outside of the UK. Some have used this in the past, which has put the PPC into a bit of a spin, with them arguing it must be in the UK, but PoFA doesn't support them.

The driver has often written from their non-UK address (with some proof that they really are domiciled outside of the UK) and technically there is little more a PPC can do. They cannot pass it back to the keeper.

I'm not aware of any final outcomes from this strategy as often people don't come back to us to let us know (poor form after the help we've given them!). It hasn't been tested in court, as far as I am aware.

MetroBot

Hi

I've gone through the terms and conditions as well and there is no mention of what the cameras would be used for. Although the terms and conditions are irrelevant since it is not stated at the entrance of the car park as required by BPA Code of Practice. So that should be a pretty strong point.

What's really bothering is that that particular car park is one of the cheapest I've ever seen, like a quid per hour or a fiver for all day. Therefore the excessive fine does not resemble their loss.

The person living there will speak with the agency tomorrow morning and will see what they decide. I will let you know tomorrow what the outcome of that phone call will be.

It's upsetting to see that some people don't appreciate your help, especially that it is free and you're basically spending your own time doing your best to help. I've gone through quite a few threads on here and I am really impressed with the amount of information you have provided and the number of people you've helped.

As you have said it is nowhere mentioned in PoFA that the driver must be from a specific location.
What in my opinion could be a problem is that as the insurance laws have changed in the recent years and not everyone can drive your car if not added to your policy. Don't know whether it is relevant though as they're not allowed to access to that information.

I'll keep you updated..

Coupon-mad

Therefore the excessive fine does not resemble their loss.

Yes, we agree, but that's very, very hard to argue nowadays in parking charge cases, without tripping over the Supreme Court's decision in the Parking Eye v Beavis case from 2015.

Bottom line: this is only Britannia. I love their cases! Extremely easy to beat at POPLA simply by using the templates here and not saying who might have been driving. Britannia can't hold a keeper liable so they can't win at POPLA against a clued up keeper appellant.

MetroBot

You're right, I've read about this more after I replied. Didn't even know who Beavis was until a few moments ago, but I've read his case.

I'm glad you love their cases. This gives me some confidence. Why are you saying that they can't hold a keeper liable? I don't know much about Britannia or any of what's happening to me right now in this case, but I've documented a lot in the past couple of days and looking forward to fighting them. I see it as a good experience and I love challenges.

Don't want to get into Popla yet. If nothing changes tomorrow I will send them the BPA template and wait for a response in order to get through to Popla and build my case.

Do I have to wait and send the template on a specific day after the date when I received the PCN or should I do it as soon as possible?