Free Radiohead Album (merged)

Dread

rabid wrote: »

So, the fact that you could download it for free illegally makes it alright?

What?! A few weeks' work? However much work they have put in (and I'm damn sure that it was a lot more than that) - and let's not forget the artistic talent required that few others have - do you not think this "few weeks' work" is worth some personal reward?

Surely if they didn't they would have just made it a free download! I like to think that they have some faith in the general public to play fair, which according to this thread seems woefully unjustified.

Rabid,

evidently you are a tabloid reader; taking quotes and citing them out of context is typical of The Sun, The Daily Mirror etc. and demonstrates a typically lazy and ineffective predisposition to distorting what has actually been said rather than composing a lucid argument. Interestingly your dismal efforts at building a case for whatever you’re attempting to say are destroyed by the quotes you include.

The fact I can download music without paying for it not only makes it alright, it makes it necessary for everyone in order to change the industry. I have a friend who worked with EMI for years and fractions of the money we pay for a CD goes to the artist, that’s a fact.

Don’t even piously pretend you have never indulged in copyright theft, borrowing someone’s rented DVD constitutes theft according to the corporations. Do you imagine for one minute artists want to be controlled by corporations like that? Not on your life!

As for the personal reward, see the second paragraph and figure out what the personal reward is; pennies on a CD costing several pounds with the remainder going to fat cat talentless managers?

Either I didn’t spell out my first post in simple enough, Janet and John language for you or you are not very bright, so here goes another attempt.

Radiohead really, really want you to download their album free so they can be in the vanguard (vanguard means be at the front, take the lead…..it’s a military term for heading up the advance) of free music downloading. They do this, along with Prince, because they are attempting to establish the best way to market music in the future. In the meantime they are deriving financial gain from their other marketing efforts, viral marketing, back catalogue promotion, merchandising, concerts……all delivered via the internet………..Doh!.....get it now? THEY WANT YOU TO DOWNLOAD THIS FREE, the pennies they make from this marketing drive pales into insignificance beside what vast amount of money they will make from other means.

As for your final puerile sentence responding to my statement that Radiohead want you to download their album freely, which is as follows

“Surely if they didn't they would have just made it a free download! I like to think that they have some faith in the general public to play fair, which according to this thread seems woefully unjustified.”

A fundamental marketing principle is that if a product or service is free it’s valueless and will be viewed as such by the consumer. How many McDonalds toys do you or your kids have and play with? If, however, you create the illusion of value by apportioning a value to a product you begin to play on emotions “I feel guilty because I didn’t pay anything for it”. If you enhance those emotional responses by filtering product promotion by guerrilla marketing and distributing it via a “free” medium (the internet) you get something far more valuable than cash, it’s called loyalty.

If I haven’t made myself clear, please ask for a contact address and I’ll continue this debate offline but kindly do not quote me out of context, you merely confuse the issue and demonstrate your ignorance.

TonyIce

Dread wrote: »

The fact I can download music without paying for it not only makes it alright, it makes it necessary for everyone in order to change the industry. I have a friend who worked with EMI for years and fractions of the money we pay for a CD goes to the artist, that’s a fact.

The industry is a mess, and let's hope Radiohead's move really sparks something off. At the very least it has sparked this debate - but let's not get caught up in the simple arguments. Basically Dread - I agree with you, but go steady.

Saying that, I don't think the band are acting as strongly on the motives you describe. Of course this gesture / stunt / whatever will keep them in the world's gaze (the very fact that we're continuing to post on this subject proves that they're raking in the publicity right now - whether one agrees with what they've done or not, we're all talking about them and I'll probably listen to the back-catalogue at work today simply because I've been reminded of it. Humans are weird, and pretty predictable a lot of the time - but that's the point). I truly think this is more of a "see what happens" situation than "hey guys this'll help us sell merch / tickets / records" sort of move. (Although I agree it will sell merch / tickets / records).

Dread wrote: »

A fundamental marketing principle is that if a product or service is free it’s valueless and will be viewed as such by the consumer. How many McDonalds toys do you or your kids have and play with? If, however, you create the illusion of value by apportioning a value to a product you begin to play on emotions “I feel guilty because I didn’t pay anything for it”. If you enhance those emotional responses by filtering product promotion by guerrilla marketing and distributing it via a “free” medium (the internet) you get something far more valuable than cash, it’s called loyalty.

Again, basically I agree - my earlier post about what "value" actually means in this context stands.

This is a call for deeper thought - let's not just rely on what we think we know about this situation, let's all start thinking in a few more dimensions and not just reel off tired slogans. It's like arguing about which is better - Terry or June?

I'm not sure, but I don't think Radiohead specifically want you to do anything, and I think if we accept that (or at least try it on for size) we can challenge a few notions about the links between creativity and the tangible results of that creativity.

rabid

Dread,

I see no need for you to become offensive. I obviously annoyed you somehow, but that does not give you the right to patronise me.

I am not a tabloid reader, nor do I or my children frequent MacDonalds.

I cannot see how the quotes were taken "out of context"; it seems to me that you are simply trying to deny that you made those statements. Did you not state "All this for sitting in a studio for a few weeks doing what they enjoy"? Do you really believe that?

I do agree with many of your points, and I understand the shrewdness of the move by Radiohead. My concern is more with the greed of the consumer than the money that Radiohead can earn. Some here just seem to see this is an opportunity to get something for nothing, simple as that.

I am severely bored by people pretending to be experts in the industry. I'll freely admit that I am not - and that I may not be as intellectually spectacular as yourself - but I can tell sh*t from Shinola.

pinkkaz

Dread wrote: »

Radiohead really, really want you to download their album free so they can be in the vanguard (vanguard means be at the front, take the lead…..it’s a military term for heading up the advance) of free music downloading. They do this, along with Prince, because they are attempting to establish the best way to market music in the future.

Er.... do you KNOW how much Prince got paid by the Daily Mail to give his CD away for "free"?

u01snr

Anyone else feeling slightly uneasy about this? Radiohead are known for their political at times left wing beliefs and particularly arguably anti capitalist views on the way western society works. Anyone else think this is going to result in a well publicised comment about the nature of society seeking the cheapest cost of a product with little regard for those who created it?? (I'm thinking coffee farmers, chocolate beans, tea, branded trainers and sports equipment here etc etc).

Having said that I paid 0.00p so I can't be that arsed really...

Cant wait to be shamed!

Simon

Ferris

u01snr wrote: »

Anyone else feeling slightly uneasy about this? Radiohead are known for their political at times left wing beliefs and particularly arguably anti capitalist views on the way western society works. Anyone else think this is going to result in a well publicised comment about the nature of society seeking the cheapest cost of a product with little regard for those who created it?? (I'm thinking coffee farmers, chocolate beans, tea, branded trainers and sports equipment here etc etc).

yep, without a doubt, and fair play to them if they do make such a connection. we need more prominent anti-capitalists (but that's a discussion for another day)...

also i seem to recall an interview with one of the band members (newsnight? guitarist ed o'brien being interviewed i seem to recall) a few years back where he caused a minor storm by saying the band weren't much bothered if people illegally shared their albums. i might be wrong, as i didn't get to watch/hear the interview, only the headlines (if anyone has any links to video/audio/a transcript, i'd love to read/hear/watch it).

i guess this latest stunt is just the logical extension of that. presumably if you're sufficiently and genuinely anti-capitalist, then if you've already made your millions by default and you find yourself no longer having an obligation to a record company and its shareholders, you don't actually NEED to make any more money (a crazy, alien concept in the entertainment industry, i know) and its better just to become producers of art.

of course, it might just be pretentious posturing in both cases... radiohead (and its fans) have no shortage of that...

zyphod

it's a bit faster now:) fair play to radiohead,do pay somthin though dudes,they've still got to pay 4 recording fees etc.

TonyIce

The story continues....

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/46028-radiohead-album-coming-out-as-regular-cd-too

So basically they've just leaked the album themselves. This whole thing is actually kind of funny. Fair play to Radiohead.

37monkey

The Charlatans are giving their new album away free of charge. I haven't read the details yet but take a look at this link, tell me what you think.

http://www.xfm.co.uk/Article.asp?b=news&id=485685

purplenails

I think it's all pretty clever, I mean how many people who've downloaded the album actually listened to Radiohead before and would have bought their album before? People would have illegally downloaded the music anyway, so this way the band get to keep track of who does, it also doesn't cost a great deal to put music online, so expenses would be pretty minimum. They can capitalize on those who feel guilty or feel they should pay a certain amount; especially if they are people who wouldn't have listened to Radiohead before or wouldn't have bought the album before. Putting out music is also a great form of marketing. If you like this album and you got it for free or significantly cheaper you're more likely to go out and buy their older albums, possibly legally if you consider you were
given the new album for free or much less than usual. So they're also capitalising on the idea of gift-giving, guilt and 'morals'. It also brings up all the issues that people are discussing in this thread, so they bring to light in a more sympathetic way the problems of copyright. We're all feel more sympathetic towards the band rather than a large company. All in all I think it's to their own benefit since there's also a discbox set for £40, they've got the album coming out later and some people are paying for downloads when before they would have downloaded them illegally for free. And there's a whole lot of publicity involved as well. Very clever.