estoppel passing on from grandad

kitty4ever

Hello,

Can anyone help me with this?

My mum and dad got married in 1968 the house they bought cost £3500 at the time, £500 for house deposit was lent from my granddad to my mum and dad, the loan never was repaid to granddad.

Granddad was a builder and did a lot of unpaid work on the house on the agreement that it was a investment into the family and would pass down through generations or be paid back someday. Granddad knocked the two reception rooms downstairs into one big room, built a kitchen extension, a conservatory, a garage and a green house, lots and lots of unpaid work.

Mum and dad got divorced in 1988, they sold the mentioned house, then mum had a unmarried partner and cohabited with him in different property bought 1995 as joint (beneficiary) tenants. Four years later mum died, with no will, partner claimed the whole lot [estate] for himself, house, money, chattels.

A very amicable discussion took place with all mentioned parties present, mum, her partner, me, granddad. During the discussion:
Granddad had said about all his lent money and work done and that he was not reimbursed when the first house was sold.
It was promised by mums partner that the relationship with him and mums adult children would continue after mums death, and that on his [mums partner] death his whole estate would be equally divided by his own two adult children and mums two adult children, it was also acknowledged by mothers partner about work done on first house, and that mums two adult children would be beneficiaries on his death.

That did not happen; Relationship did not continue and he left his estate to his children and grandchildren only.
i need advice?
I need to go to court and claim estoppel and also passed on estoppel from granddad [deceased].

McKneff

You need to see a solicitor. Most of the above is irrevant to be honest.
He said, she said bears no legality.

The bottom line is that your mother died intestate.
Her children should inherit,

molerat

It should have been put in a will if it is what was wanted.

How much money have you got to take this to court ?

Yorkshireman99

kitty4ever wrote: »

Hello,

Can anyone help me with this?

My mum and dad got married in 1968 the house they bought cost £3500 at the time, £500 for house deposit was lent from my granddad to my mum and dad, the loan never was repaid to granddad.

Granddad was a builder and did a lot of unpaid work on the house on the agreement that it was a investment into the family and would pass down through generations or be paid back someday. Granddad knocked the two reception rooms downstairs into one big room, built a kitchen extension, a conservatory, a garage and a green house, lots and lots of unpaid work.

Mum and dad got divorced in 1988, they sold the mentioned house, then mum had a unmarried partner and cohabited with him in different property bought 1995 as joint (beneficiary) tenants. Four years later mum died, with no will, partner claimed the whole lot [estate] for himself, house, money, chattels.

A very amicable discussion took place with all mentioned parties present, mum, her partner, me, granddad. During the discussion:
Granddad had said about all his lent money and work done and that he was not reimbursed when the first house was sold.
It was promised by mums partner that the relationship with him and mums adult children would continue after mums death, and that on his [mums partner] death his whole estate would be equally divided by his own two adult children and mums two adult children, it was also acknowledged by mothers partner about work done on first house, and that mums two adult children would be beneficiaries on his death.

That did not happen; Relationship did not continue and he left his estate to his children and grandchildren only.
i need advice?
I need to go to court and claim estoppel and also passed on estoppel from granddad [deceased].

Unmarried partners inherit nothing. How did he get his hands on it? The money should have gone to her children.

Keep_pedalling

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

Unmarried partners inherit nothing. How did he get his hands on it? The money should have gone to her children.

The house would have gone to the partner as they were joint tenants and if she only had joined bank and savings accounts with him, he would have got any money in there as well which just leaves chattels, which are probably not worth worrying about.

If that is not the case then there are questions to be asked, but without anything in writing the estate owes nothing to GF.

kitty4ever

mums partner refused to talk about anything after mums death, and did not want to be visited again by our side family.

It is known that mums partner registered mums death with the registry office, he did not satisfy any of the necessary criteria for registering a death, but did so, and got-in-there first.
It is alleged that he falsely represented himself to the bank as an executor and next of kin, and the carless bank simply handed over the money to him because he waved a death certificate around.

Mum had money including.
Money in the bank, a terminal illness payment from a pension fund, insurance policy with the home mortgage company.

kitty4ever

how much will solicitors charge for case?

securityguy

kitty4ever wrote: »

Hello,

Can anyone help me with this?

My mum and dad got married in 1968 the house they bought cost £3500 at the time, £500 for house deposit was lent from my granddad to my mum and dad, the loan never was repaid to granddad.

Granddad was a builder and did a lot of unpaid work on the house on the agreement that it was a investment into the family and would pass down through generations or be paid back someday. Granddad knocked the two reception rooms downstairs into one big room, built a kitchen extension, a conservatory, a garage and a green house, lots and lots of unpaid work.

Mum and dad got divorced in 1988, they sold the mentioned house, then mum had a unmarried partner and cohabited with him in different property bought 1995 as joint (beneficiary) tenants. Four years later mum died, with no will, partner claimed the whole lot [estate] for himself, house, money, chattels.

A very amicable discussion took place with all mentioned parties present, mum, her partner, me, granddad. During the discussion:
Granddad had said about all his lent money and work done and that he was not reimbursed when the first house was sold.
It was promised by mums partner that the relationship with him and mums adult children would continue after mums death, and that on his [mums partner] death his whole estate would be equally divided by his own two adult children and mums two adult children, it was also acknowledged by mothers partner about work done on first house, and that mums two adult children would be beneficiaries on his death.

That did not happen; Relationship did not continue and he left his estate to his children and grandchildren only.
i need advice?
I need to go to court and claim estoppel and also passed on estoppel from granddad [deceased].

If your mother used the money from the sale of the first house to purchase as joint tenants with her partner, then on her death (absent a will) he owned the house outright. When you say he claimed all the money, presumably it was in joint back accounts and he was the joint beneficial owner, so the same applies. An argument might be made about her possessions, but if they mostly post-date the purchase of the house a court would assume they're jointly owned and therefore his. Pooling your assets with your partner or new spouse, without a will, if you have children by a previous marriage will generally result in this sort of outcome, although joint tenancies are relatively unusual amongst the unmarried.

All the "he said, she said, amicable agreements" stuff is irrelevant: if it wasn't recorded in a will (although if the house and money was held as joint tenants/owners, a will wouldn't help as there would be nothing to be left by the will) it didn't happen.

It's hard to see how you think promissory estoppel arises. Are you thinking that a verbal, undocumented agreement would override intestacy provisions? No way. It would be virtually impossible to make that case over a will (after all, "Nan promised me her emerald necklace crockery, but it's not in the will!" would clog the courts up for years) but to claim that there was a verbal agreement which overrides people's rights in intestacy over what is clearly the deceased's property is doomed to disaster.

Your mother died with her assets held jointly by her partner, so they became his (no will or probate needed: they became his immediately upon her death). He then died intestate so his assets now pass to his children. You don't have a case. You might find a solicitor willing to take your money off you to have a punt, but you simply don't have a case.

Linton

I do not believe the bank would have passed on large sums of money from a deceased's personal account purely on the basis of a death certificate. They would require probate. If I remember correctly when I was an executor they required a copy of the will naming me as the executor for them to pay out a small account. I dont believe in "careless banks", they have firm procedures.

securityguy

Linton wrote: »

I do not believe the bank would have passed on large sums of money from a deceased's personal account purely on the basis of a death certificate.

But they would if the account were joint, as on the death of one party the money belongs to the other account holder, irrespective of any will or probate concerns (it's the equivalent of joint tenancy).

kitty4ever

Thank you,

I was going to try to do the court proceeding myself without using a solicitor, i have done some research being disgruntled.
I heard that all costs come out of the estate with inheritance disputes.
I could register my own law company with companies house and manage my own case (this) charge £250 an hour for my own time and claim costs?
If successful I would have to pay tax on any money i get through setting up my own law company because the money would not be a gift.