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estoppel passing on from grandad

24

Comments

  • Yorkshireman99
    Yorkshireman99 Posts: 5,470 Forumite
    The house would have gone to the partner as they were joint tenants and if she only had joined bank and savings accounts with him, he would have got any money in there as well which just leaves chattels, which are probably not worth worrying about.

    If that is not the case then there are questions to be asked, but without anything in writing the estate owes nothing to GF.
    Pure assumption. The assets may not have been jointly held. The OP needs to get some facts first.
  • securityguy
    securityguy Posts: 2,464 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    kitty4ever wrote: »
    It is known that mums partner registered mums death with the registry office, he did not satisfy any of the necessary criteria for registering a death

    A technical offence, at most. The legislation doesn't define "relative". Arguing the toss over the status of a common law husband with whom the deceased jointly owned a house will get you nowhere. And anyway, as he's now dead, so what? Are you claiming the death wasn't registered?
    It is alleged that he falsely represented himself to the bank as an executor and next of kin, and the carless bank simply handed over the money to him because he waved a death certificate around.

    Anyone can obtain a death certificate. If he was one of the joint holders of a bank account and the other account holder is dead (see the certificate) he doesn't need to be an executor, next of kin or anything else: the money is his. The end. That's how joint accounts work (other than in exotic circumstances which are highly unlikely in the case of a couple with a joint tenancy).
    Mum had money including.
    Money in the bank, a terminal illness payment from a pension fund, insurance policy with the home mortgage company.

    In a sole name account, or in a joint account?

    And the insurance policy associated with the mortgage would almost certainly be written to pay the mortgage off outside the estate, and therefore ultimately end up in the hands of the joint tenant.
  • securityguy
    securityguy Posts: 2,464 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    kitty4ever wrote: »
    Thank you,

    I heard that all costs come out of the estate with inheritance disputes.
    I could register my own law company with companies house and manage my own case (this) charge £250 an hour for my own time and claim costs?



    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/47/part/I/crossheading/unqualified-persons-acting-as-solicitors
  • securityguy
    securityguy Posts: 2,464 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Pure assumption. The assets may not have been jointly held. The OP needs to get some facts first.

    The house was jointly held.

    Unless the bank were insane, they would only have released substantial funds without probate if they were jointly held.

    The mortgage life insurance would be written to clear the mortgage, outside the estate, and therefore would effectively go to the partner.

    There might be some debate about the beneficial owner of pension terminal illness payment, but such payments are often written in trust.

    The OP is on a hiding to nothing. The time to challenge events was at the point of their mother's death. That time has passed.
  • kitty4ever
    kitty4ever Posts: 14 Forumite
    is there anyway getting around this?
    Is there a loop hole that allows costs to be claimed? using a method similar to as mentioned?
    "But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' "But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' "They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
  • Yorkshireman99
    Yorkshireman99 Posts: 5,470 Forumite
    kitty4ever wrote: »
    is there anyway getting around this?
    Is there a loop hole that allows costs to be claimed? using a method similar to as mentioned?
    I am sorry to say that after this time you have very little chance of getting anywhere with this claim. Before you even think about getting costs you will have to build a very strong case.
  • Crabapple
    Crabapple Posts: 1,573 Forumite
    What costs?!

    You haven't even made clear how or from where you think you can claim. Your mother's estate? Sue the partner? Or his estate if he has also died?

    There are tight time limits for any of those options plus you have to have grounds. Estoppel cases are far more complex. Without a specialist lawyer you have no chance.
    :heartpuls Daughter born January 2012 :heartpuls Son born February 2014 :heartpuls

    Slimming World ~ trying to get back on the wagon...
  • lincroft1710
    lincroft1710 Posts: 19,090 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Your mother died 18 years ago, her partner appears to have "inherited" her half of joint possessions and monies. That was the time to have challenged his "inheritance". Her partner also appears to have exercised his right about changing his mind about keeping in contact and his will.

    Whatever your grandfather was owed cannot now be quantified. Was it half the cost (your father would be responsible for the other half) of labour and materials at the time, which would be a relatively small amount by today's standards. Or was it half the value of the difference between the 1988 sale price of the house and the value of the house before granddad's improvements? Again impossible to calculate.

    As for "next of kin", I put my unmarried partner's name on documents as my next of kin.

    You are the only survivor of the "amicable discussion" so there is no supporting evidence this ever took place.

    Sorry, but whatever the "moral" right, you do not appear to have a legal claim to any part of your late mother's partner's estate.
    If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales
  • TonyMMM
    TonyMMM Posts: 3,431 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    A technical offence, at most. The legislation doesn't define "relative". .

    Lying to the registrar is a specific offence of perjury and carries a prison sentence (but is rarely prosecuted) and "relative" has a very clear definition under registration rules.

    But you don't have to be a relative to register a death - there are a number of different ways a person can be qualified to act as informant. The usual last resort is for them to be shown as "person arranging the funeral".

    Whatever he claimed as his qualification will be shown on the certificate but the time to object was then -although you could still submit an application for a correction to the registration.
  • kitty4ever
    kitty4ever Posts: 14 Forumite
    He was not arranging the funeral, he had actually dumped mum off at the hospital when she was ill and refused to have her back in their house after several days of hospital admission and being returned home by ambulance couriers, stabilized on medication after a drug caused psychotic episode.

    He said, "Your family are paying for your mother's funeral"
    & said, "Don't forget your wallet when you visit the funeral director"

    Thanks Everyone For Your Help.
    "But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' "But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.' "They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
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