Advice needed on holiday complaint.

MrSmartprice

In reply to ReggieRebel, I would advise against accepting vouchers. It is something they sometimes do at the early stages of haggling, but it shows that they have acknowledged that they are liable for some compensation.

By accepting vouchers you are limited not only to that company, but usually to full brochure prices. Insist that any amount is in cash. After all, a court will only make a monetary award. And if they have offered, say, £500 in vouchers then you could easily argue that you are entitled to £500 in cash as you no longer have confidence in that company to provide your next holiday.

The point here is that ruined holidays can never be properly replaced, since most people cannot have their annual holiday entitlement over again. Fortunately courts accept this principle and will, in the case of a total write-off of a holiday, compensate in cash over and above the actual spend on the holiday.

jonesMUFCforever

I have taken the views of some of the posters here on board.
I am no expert BUT there is no evidence that the holiday was ruined (inconvenienced yes but not ruined), OP has not confirmed whether he made any written complaint when he arrived or asked to come home.

Purely IMO here if he did not then a court will say that he 'deemed' to accept some of the changes.
I am in no way defending the travel company here and their Reps seem worse than useless, but to claim 100% refund of cost - Come on!

If it was that bad he should have come home - then I believe that he would be entitled to compensation and full refund.

ssedd

I would agree a certain amount that asking for the full amount and compensation is a bit OTT, but unfortunatly my wife had decided to write and post the letter off to the travel company before I had read it whilst I was at work. I would have prefered to have waited to see what they had offered first, but I guess they will still make what they consider to be a fair offer in any case regardless of what we ask for.
As for asking to be return home at the airport. On arrival at the airport we were told we would be being sent to the other hotel but as we had no knowlodge of the hotel, what it was like or indeed what the resort of Loret was like we could not make a judgement whether the hotel would be suitable or not. Also I only discovered that this was an option anyway after returning home and reading the small print in the terms and conditions; we were never told this at any point on the holiday by any of the reps.

Joto_2

He also said he wouldn't probably get the full amount but it's a figure for the holiday company to consider.

jonesMUFCforever

Joto wrote: »

He also said he wouldn't probably get the full amount but it's a figure for the holiday company to consider.

Ok so lets pretend that they ignore or do not offer enough money to satisfy OP and he decides that he is going to sue in say Small claims court.
Case comes in front of a judge and travel company shows his letter showing him asking for full refund and compensation - would this show OP in a good light? - after all he got a holiday (albeit not the one he booked) and surely he cannot substantiate his loss for the whole cost of the holiday and more?

Don't get me wrong I think he deserves some compensation as I stated in post 5 of this thread.
Sending the letter might 'cramp his style' if he has to go to court IMO.

MrSmartprice

ejones999 wrote: »

Ok so lets pretend that they ignore or do not offer enough money to satisfy OP and he decides that he is going to sue in say Small claims court.
Case comes in front of a judge and travel company shows his letter showing him asking for full refund and compensation - would this show OP in a good light? - after all he got a holiday (albeit not the one he booked) and surely he cannot substantiate his loss for the whole cost of the holiday and more?

Don't get me wrong I think he deserves some compensation as I stated in post 5 of this thread.
Sending the letter might 'cramp his style' if he has to go to court IMO.

I'm afraid your uninformed ramblings show that you have absolutely no idea how either the travel industry or the Small Claims systems operate. Your so-called advice is doing no-one any good as it is simply idle conjecture and subjective opinion rather than concrete advice on the subject.

Going to court is not some sort of bidding lottery as you seem to imagine. You make a claim for an amount which you support by a logical process of presentation of your side of the case. Once liability is established the District Judge will decide what percentage of the claim to award. This could be 100%, it could be less. You are perfectly entitled to claim for more than the full cost of the holiday, for reasons I have covered previously.

Your 'Perry Mason' scenario of letters being flourished before the court like rabbits from a hat is so far fetched as to be laughable. It doesn't happen. Mutual disclosure takes place well before the case. And letters by the plaintiff will of course be produced by the plaintiff.

In my considerable experience travel companies rarely let cases go to a hearing. They know when they are liable, and usually how much they are liable for. But often at the last minute they will pay a claim almost in full (around 90%) rather than send a lawyer to court for the day, which costs them a fortune they can't recover even if they win.

So, ejones, you seem to have no grasp of Consumer Law, the Travel Industry, Court Procedure, or the practicalities of dealing with complaints. So why post from a position of utter ignorance. When in a hole, stop digging!

MrSmartprice

ssedd wrote: »

I guess they will still make what they consider to be a fair offer in any case regardless of what we ask for.

Sadly this will not be the case. It is the way of the industry to offer little or nothing in their first reply. They will probably not even address the points you raised, it is usually a collection of 'stock' paragraphs full of platitudes and regrets. They will possibly offer a few pounds in 'ex gratia' payment. Their contempt is often infuriating.

Reply to this offer by dismissing it out of hand and reiterating the complaints. Do them in numbered paragraphs and insist that they reply to every point specifically. End the letter by stating that you will sue them if they do not make an acceptable offer within 14 days.

Even their second offer will not be their final one, although it may show that they are prepared to listen. Their third offer is often the optimum one, after which you accept or sue if it falls short of what you feel is reasonable.

It is sad but true that many people end up with far less compensation for ruined holidays than they are really entitled to. Courts tend to take a dim view of the cavalier attitude of holiday companies who dump clients in places far removed from what they booked and contracted for, then ignore their protests in resort or simply lie to them. That's why companies usually settle before the hearing.

Don't be fobbed off by the operator, or by ignorant advice from barrack room lawyers like ejones. PM me if you need anything clarified.

jonesMUFCforever

MrSmartprice wrote: »

I'm afraid your uninformed ramblings show that you have absolutely no idea how either the travel industry or the Small Claims systems operate. Your so-called advice is doing no-one any good as it is simply idle conjecture and subjective opinion rather than concrete advice on the subject.

Going to court is not some sort of bidding lottery as you seem to imagine. You make a claim for an amount which you support by a logical process of presentation of your side of the case. Once liability is established the District Judge will decide what percentage of the claim to award. This could be 100%, it could be less. You are perfectly entitled to claim for more than the full cost of the holiday, for reasons I have covered previously.

Your 'Perry Mason' scenario of letters being flourished before the court like rabbits from a hat is so far fetched as to be laughable. It doesn't happen. Mutual disclosure takes place well before the case. And letters by the plaintiff will of course be produced by the plaintiff.

In my considerable experience travel companies rarely let cases go to a hearing. They know when they are liable, and usually how much they are liable for. But often at the last minute they will pay a claim almost in full (around 90%) rather than send a lawyer to court for the day, which costs them a fortune they can't recover even if they win.

So, ejones, you seem to have no grasp of Consumer Law, the Travel Industry, Court Procedure, or the practicalities of dealing with complaints. So why post from a position of utter ignorance. When in a hole, stop digging!

So your a solicitor and a comedian!
My ramblings actually beat Virgin Atlantic in Small claims only a few years ago.
I do not claim to be a lawyer.

MrSmartprice

ejones999 wrote: »

So your a solicitor and a comedian!
My ramblings actually beat Virgin Atlantic in Small claims only a few years ago.
I do not claim to be a lawyer.

Legal qualifications and 25 years experience says I know what I'm talking about. Your 'ramblings' have demonstrated perfectly well that you don't.:rolleyes:

I don't care too much what you do on your own behalf. It's just a bit much when you start posting palpably incorrect advice to someone who actually needs some practical assistance. If you have used the courts you should know about its procedures and requirements and would not have posted such nonsense. Time for you to stop digging, I think.:o

tishybabe

I had a problem with my travel agent last year for our honeymoon. When we turned up at the airport on the day of departure I was denied boarding as my passport didn't have a barcode that you need to enter the states. My TA had seen my passport on previous occasion and never mentionned anything although the agent certified my passport. When we tried to call the agency on the day they were no help at all and fortunately I managed to get a new passport within a few hours and the Continental airline(who were fantastic) booked us on the next flight the next day.

When on my return I complained to the TA they firstly stood their ground stating that it wasn't their fault bla, bla, bla and I then wrote to their Head Office who agreed to reimburse us for the lost night on the resort (about £200) and I then asked for compensation and they finally agreed on £100 pp (even for my daughter who was only 18 months at the time).
If I hadn't managed to get a new passport so quickly and if the airline hadn't been so helpful we would have been bound to lose lots of money.

My advice is to ask for what you think is reasonable and stick with it.

Good luck.