Comparison sites including MSE LIE!!

timtaroo

Using the word LIE to get everyone's attention including hopefully Martin Lewis himself.

What is this claim about? About all the comparison sites never ever include a comparison with new deals from one's current supplier. All comparisons as far as I can see are with one's current supplier variable rate which as we know is always very high and therefore meaningless unless your stupid enough not to go onto a new product with them or switch.

Why do they not include current supplier best deals?

Vested interest in getting you to switch of course and the fees they make.
And I (shock horror) INCLUDE MSE in that!

I discovered this by accident only. U Switch gave me a comparison showing I would save £250/year and MSE comparison showed about £150/year. But my current supplier had emailed me with their best deal as my contract was about to expire and the only way I could make a real comparison was by painstakingly calculating the annual spend based on my monthly average Kwh useage for both gas and electric plus the standing charge.

In both cases the saving was either greater or about the same by changing to the new product offer from my current supplier. Obviously also easier and instant.

So what's the story here Martin Lewis? Like most people I have always thought you were someone to trust and on the whole I think you are. But why does your site only compare the standard variable rate of current suppliers with other company's products and not include new products from current suppliers?

And why don't you expose this scam that is used by the comparison sites? You love finding us all the best deal in most circumstances so what the hell is going on here?

Or am I missing something? I can show you the figures if you are really interested but you are such an expert surely you must know about this. :mad:

I look forward to an intelligent debate about my findings.

Thank you.

EachPenny

timtaroo wrote: »

I look forward to an intelligent debate about my findings.

Perhaps not using the word "Lie" would be a better way to start the debate if you want to be intelligent?

All comparisons as far as I can see are with one's current supplier variable rate which as we know is always very high and therefore meaningless unless your stupid enough not to go onto a new product with them or switch

Coming on a forum and calling people 'stupid' is also not intelligent, it is rude, and in this case ignorant. And SVT's are not always 'very high'.

Some people don't or cannot switch because of their personal circumstances - they could be elderly, vulnerable, living in rented accommodation for example - do you really think they are 'stupid'?

Some people may stay on a SVT for strategic reasons - they could be waiting for more attractive deals to come along, knowing that prices are likely to drop in the coming months. Or they might be waiting for a collective switch. Some of the cleverest people on this forum might be doing that right now - do you really think they are 'stupid'?

And for some people, a SVT might be the cheapest option. It is for me, one SVT comes out cheapest for me every time I do a price comparison. Do you think I'm stupid for not switching away from my cheapest deal?

Oh, and you might want to look up the correct use of "your" - not knowing that is... well I'll let you choose the word.

brewerdave

OP - sorry but you are wrong -I switched away from EON earlier this year, and their best "retention deals" came up on the comparisons.....but were a LONG way down the tables because they weren't competitive!!

System

If you are on a fixed term contract with LESS than 12 months to run, then any 'savings' are flawed. In fairness to suppliers and accredited comparison sites, they are required to base future costs on a rolling 12 month period which assumes that the cost for the next 12 months will be 'x' months on present tariff + '12 - x' months on the SVT. MSE CEC offers both the Ofgem-mandated comparison and a better 12 months on your present tariff compared to 12 months on these tariffs.

As others have pointed out, deals offered by your present supplier rarely better the market. It is always wise to do a full market comparison based on kWhs/year not £s.

StopIt

Hengus wrote: »

If you are on a fixed term contract with LESS than 12 months to run, then any 'savings' are flawed. In fairness to suppliers and accredited comparison sites, they are required to base future costs on a rolling 12 month period which assumes that the cost for the next 12 months will be 'x' months on present tariff + '12 - x' months on the SVT. MSE CEC offers both the Ofgem-mandated comparison and a better 12 months on your present tariff compared to 12 months on these tariffs.

As others have pointed out, deals offered by your present supplier rarely better the market. It is always wise to do a full market comparison based on kWhs/year not £s.

This really.


Comparing to an SVR gives a baseline.


Yes, it assumes that if you're on a fix, that the comparison is between the remaining time on the current fix & SVR vs the new fix in total. But because many people let their fixes lapse, it's a better comparison.


You should always compare the TCR rates anyway, rather than the "You pay x a year" stuff. That's based on your usage. Like broadband speeds, the "you can save up-to" is nice marketing, but is pure fluff. It's not a lie however and saying finding your TCR is "Painstaking" is beyond madness.


Once you put your details in a comparison site it'll have the TCR of every deal vs your own, which you should have handy anyway. hardly painstaking stuff and the fact that you've done more work than needed trying to calculate the kWh rate is a bit moot.

[Deleted User]

EachPenny wrote: »

Some people don't or cannot switch because of their personal circumstances - they could be elderly, vulnerable, living in rented accommodation for example - do you really think they are 'stupid'?

Some people may stay on a SVT for strategic reasons - they could be waiting for more attractive deals to come along, knowing that prices are likely to drop in the coming months. Or they might be waiting for a collective switch. Some of the cleverest people on this forum might be doing that right now - do you really think they are 'stupid'?

I agree with you. There's another reason for possibly not switching. It is my own situation where I was being pressured by the if you don't switch you're a sissy brigade to do a switch which might save me £50 / year. However, because I have a smart meter, I wanted to retain that facility. Unfortunately due to the chaotic and badly thought out way these have been rolled out, by switching I'd lose that facility. I didn't want to be thrust back into the Flintstone era of meter readers mounted on dinosaurs leaving cards when they couldn't gain entry. It's actually worth a few quid to me to stay in the 21st century.

timtaroo

To Brewerdave

Only wrong compared to your specific results. Which site do you use? Maybe that one does show existing supplier products and compare but I've never had them come up using U Switch or in this MSE site.

What I forgot to say is I had another example of this 6 months ago in a property I rent out. That time it was also cheaper to stay with my current supplier so this is not a one off and all I can say is both times the sites were comparing other company's products with the variable rate of the company I was with so the results showed massive savings that were totally misleading.

EachPenny

Deleted_User wrote: »

I wanted to retain that facility. Unfortunately due to the chaotic and badly thought out way these have been rolled out, by switching I'd lose that facility. I didn't want to be thrust back into the Flintstone era of meter readers mounted on dinosaurs leaving cards when they couldn't gain entry. It's actually worth a few quid to me to stay in the 21st century.

Yes, that's a good one and I'm sure there are also lots more good reasons not to switch without being 'stupid'

I have a slightly different approach to the flintstone meter reader issue though. I normally just wait for the estimated bill to arrive. If it is significantly more than I actually owe I'll submit meter readings and get it corrected. If it is underestimated I don't see the problem, I'd rather keep the money in my bank account until the next bill. The only time I need to really make sure of reading/bill alignment is when the next price change happens. As my energy DD's come from my 123 account if I do get a massively overestimated bill then sometimes it slips my mind to submit correcting meter reads until after the DD's have been taken. That's the problem with getting old (and stupid), sometimes those little jobs get overlooked for a few weeks

I love my 'dumb' meter, I think we work very well together

timtaroo

From StopIt

Yes, it assumes that if you're on a fix, that the comparison is between the remaining time on the current fix & SVR vs the new fix in total. But because many people let their fixes lapse, it's a better comparison.


You should always compare the TCR rates anyway, rather than the "You pay x a year" stuff.
Once you put your details in a comparison site it'll have the TCR of every deal vs your own, which you should have handy anyway. hardly painstaking stuff and the fact that you've done more work than needed trying to calculate the kWh rate is a bit moot.

What is TCR?
The calculations I was forced to do was between the new product on offer from my current supplier and the two products with the alleged greatest savings on the U Switch site and MSE. This first meant calculating the annual Kwh usage from my current suppliers account, something they did not show. They only show the monthly useage so I had to average it out myself. I then had to calculate the standing charge costs and useage costs for each product in order to make a valid comparison. That's what I'm calling painstaking.
I've obviously a complete greenhorn compared to you and many people here so please tell me how I can do a valid comparison quickly.
Thanks

[Deleted User]

EachPenny wrote: »

I love my 'dumb' meter, I think we work very well together

To be able to give a consumer reading you need to manually read the meter. The problem with some meters is where they're located. Sometimes they're sited such that for those of us not Olympic athletes they're a pain (even literally) to read. Again, it's worth my while to pay a few quid extra to avoid the risk of breaking my neck trying to read the meter.

StopIt

timtaroo wrote: »

From StopIt

Yes, it assumes that if you're on a fix, that the comparison is between the remaining time on the current fix & SVR vs the new fix in total. But because many people let their fixes lapse, it's a better comparison.


You should always compare the TCR rates anyway, rather than the "You pay x a year" stuff.
Once you put your details in a comparison site it'll have the TCR of every deal vs your own, which you should have handy anyway. hardly painstaking stuff and the fact that you've done more work than needed trying to calculate the kWh rate is a bit moot.

What is TCR?
The calculations I was forced to do was between the new product on offer from my current supplier and the two products with the alleged greatest savings on the U Switch site and MSE. This first meant calculating the annual Kwh usage from my current suppliers account, something they did not show. They only show the monthly useage so I had to average it out myself. I then had to calculate the standing charge costs and useage costs for each product in order to make a valid comparison. That's what I'm calling painstaking.
I've obviously a complete greenhorn compared to you and many people here so please tell me how I can do a valid comparison quickly.
Thanks

Or, you put your last years usage into MSE, it'll then give you the TCR rate for every tariff.


TCR = Tariff Comparison Rate. It calculates the Unit Rate along with your Standing Charge to give an overall cost per kWh including VAT and Standing Charge averaged through the year.


So Tariff one could have a lower standing charge but higher Unit rate that Tariff Two. The TCR calculates your usage and tells you which tariff is cheaper overall using your usage via the TCR.


The comparison sites do not know your current usage, you must tell them. Once you do, you'll get an accurate comparison. When you click the "More Info" Or similar button on the comparison sites for each tariff, it'll tell you the Unit Rates, Standing Charge and crucially the TCR. No extra calculations required.