Split spindle on a UPVC door

techno79

I need to replace my front door (which is an old fashioned simple door with no multi-point locking). What I want is a door which can be locked in 3 different ways

1) Simply closed shut (no multi-point locking engaged)
- From outside: door can be opened without a key
- From inside: door can be opened without a key
- Justification: prevents me getting locked outside the house e.g. if I'm in the front garden and door shuts behind me.

2) Closed shut and lift outside or inside handle (engages multi-point locking)
- From outside: key required to open door
- From inside: door can be opened without a key
- Justification: how the door will be secured when someone is at home. No key required if people need to exit rapidly in an emergency.

3) Same as 2 but key is used to lock
- From outside: key required to open door
- From Inside: key required to open door
- Justification: full security for when last person leaves the house.

I've just learnt about split spindle locks vs solid spindle locks and was wondering if it would allow me to do the above?

TIA

jbainbridge

No I don't think you can. In your (1) you would still need a key from outside. The main drawback of a split spindle is that you can lock yourself out.

If I'm wrong will someone please correct me!

Le_Kirk

I think (1) and (3) are OK but not sure how (2) would work. How does the lock know whether you have lifted the handle from inside or outside?

techno79

Le_Kirk wrote: »

I think (1) and (3) are OK but not sure how (2) would work. How does the lock know whether you have lifted the handle from inside or outside?

It doesn't need to know which side the handle was lifted from. It's just that the outside handle cannot disengage the multi-point locking without the key whereas the inside handle can disengage without the key (hence being a split spindle).

(All this is AFAIK)

Le_Kirk

OK I see now, thanks for the explanation.

techno79

Okay so I've just had new doors fitted and I was explicit at the time of ordering how I wanted the locks to work.

Without using the key at all, lifting up the inside door handle would engage the multiple hook locks such they couldn't be disengaged from the outside. And this is what was confirmed I would have.

However, what I've been given is: without using the key at all, if the inside door handle was lifted, it would engage the multiple hook locks but the outside door handle would disengage the hook locks. The door wouldn't open due to the single latch that was near the barrel lock but an outsider could still disengage the hook locks. The only way to prevent an outsider from disengaging the hook locks is for the inside person to use the key after lifting up the handle. This is not what I wanted as I do not like the fact that you have to use a key to secure the door in this way. I feel in an emergency where you need to evacuate the house, I don't want to be faffing about trying to find a key to exit the property. And leaving a key in the lock or near the door is not very secure either.

Can someone please tell me what kind of lock will do this. I was told it was a split spindle lock but this is what I've been given and it doesn't do that.

System

Why not change the lock barrel in the front door to a thumb turn one on the inside?

techno79

AlexandLauren wrote: »

Why not change the lock barrel in the front door to a thumb turn one on the inside?

Isn't that just the same as leaving a spare key in the barrel on the inside except I won't have any extra cost and I have the option of taking the key out?

System

Leaving a key on the inside normally means 'welcome' people from the outside cannot use their key to get in....whereas a thumb turn gives you full hook lock security but enables 'welcome' people to use their keys to come in

What are the concerns with a thumb lock on the inside? small children unlocking the front door? people smashing the door glass to unlock the door?

techno79

AlexandLauren wrote: »

Leaving a key on the inside normally means 'welcome' people from the outside cannot use their key to get in....whereas a thumb turn gives you full hook lock security but enables 'welcome' people to use their keys to come in

What are the concerns with a thumb lock on the inside? small children unlocking the front door? people smashing the door glass to unlock the door?

Maybe it is better to list my concerns in case they are incorrectly placed:
1) I want to use the multi-point locking without a key while I'm still at home (probably using it just at night when I go to bed). I feel I'd want the full security of the door while I'm sleeping and not having it reliant on just the single little latch near the barrel lock.

2) I didn't want to keep the key in the lock on the inside as I feel it could be fished out via the letterbox with wire (or specialist thief's tool).

3) Changing to use a thumb lock feels like it would be "relatively" easy to turn via specialist thief's tool via the letterbox.

I have a composite door which has no glass panels nor is there any glass on the side of the door. Nearest glass is the window from the adjacent room.

System

The only scenario i can think of is not to have a letter box in the door itself and instead have a letterbox on the wall