Landlord (me) selling house with tenants in it...

Ashmil

Hello, inexperienced (and to be honest, reluctant) landlord here... would be very grateful for advice.

I have been renting a house out to tenants for about 9 months - the house that me and my ex used to live in when together, and still joint own.

When we moved out, the tenants moved in, and the original plan was that they would eventually buy it because they liked it. However it turns out they are having trouble getting a mortgage, so this is now not going to happen. This means we have to put the house on the market instead, which has now been done. Both me and my ex are keen to sell and move on. But the tenants are still there at present.

The question is how to manage the sale of the house with the tenants in it. We are at the '1 month notice required' phase of the tenancy agreement, so there's that. On top of that, we also made a friendly agreement to give each other 2 months notice so that a) they had good chance to find somewhere else to move, b) I'd hopefully have chance to sell and not be left with an empty property I had to cover the mortgage for.

However there are 'counter-concerns' - the tenants said recently they wanted to give their months notice, pay that month's rent, and move out early. Partly because they felt they were in the way, and that if someone does want to buy (it's no chain), they may be put off by waiting for the tenants' notice to expire and for them to get out (true i guess, I could find myself suddenly wishing they weren't there - not that I'd try to kick them out prematurely). They also have concerns about their privacy - pics and videos of their belongings going up on the estate agent website, people coming round to do viewings etc. They'd rather not be there for that.

But then I have no idea how long it will take to sell, and am concerned about it being empty and me having to cover the mortgage for the place for months on end, as well as the cost of where I live now. Plus which, they've made it look quite nice with them in it - helps to sell?

So there are conflicting concerns on both sides... in a perfect world I'd sell it at the moment they moved out, but in reality we're trying to navigate the uncertainty of what will actually happen.

Just wondering if people have any thoughts/experience on navigating this?

Thanks

A

theartfullodger

Ashmil wrote: »

Hello, inexperienced (and to be honest, reluctant) landlord here... ............... We are at the '1 month notice required' phase of the tenancy agreement, so there's that. ....................

Doubt it: (Even if tenancy says landlord can give 1 month's notice: NB Are you in England, Wales, Scotland, NI??)

Unless there's serious rent arrears or terrible ASB there's no chance of notice less than 2 months. If tenants dig heels in & refuse to go typical times through courts & bailiffs are 40 weeks plus - see
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?75530-Time-to-repossess-statistics

Given you are (your words) inexperienced are you confident everything done right to allow a valid s21 min. 2 month notice anyway?

Have you protected deposit within 30 days of being paid & served PI? (If you don't know what PI is, almost certainly you ain't!).

Have you served tenant (rather than happen to have) EPC, GSC & "How to Rent" booklet?

If no to any of them and s21 will be invalid.

And did you run "right to rent" checks for all occupants over 18?

Cheers!

PasturesNew

As artful pointed out - as a LL you don't have a 1 month notice period ... it'll be TWO - and that's the bare minimum, could be closer to three depending how the dates stack up.

And that only gives a date after which you will take steps to have them (eventually) removed if they haven't moved out on the right date.

G_M

Ashmil wrote: »

Hello, inexperienced ... landlord here... correct, as shown by your comments below

I have been renting a house out to tenants for about 9 months - the house that me and my ex used to live in when together, and still joint own.
OK

....we have to put the house on the market ....But the tenants are still there at present.
Bad move. End the tenancy before trying to sell.

The question is how to manage the sale of the house with the tenants in it.
As above.

We are at the '1 month notice required' phase of the tenancy agreement,
Never heard of this. Do you have any idea how to end a tenancy? See link below.

On top of that, we also made a friendly agreement to give each other 2 months notice so that a) they had good chance to find somewhere else to move, b) I'd hopefully have chance to sell and not be left with an empty property I had to cover the mortgage for.
The exact format of this 'friendly agreement' could be important. I suggest it may be legally binding. More details needed.
How agreed.
When.
Exact wording.
Written or verbal.
Time limit.
etc

However there are 'counter-concerns' - the tenants said recently they wanted to give their months notice, pay that month's rent, and move out early.
said they 'want to', or that they are 'going to'? ie have they given proper notice or not?

Partly because they felt they were in the way, and that if someone does want to buy (it's no chain), they may be put off by waiting for the tenants' notice to expire and for them to get out
very sensible. Most buyers are put off by tenants - hence my initial advie above.

(true i guess, I could find myself suddenly wishing they weren't there - not that I'd try to kick them out prematurely).
that is exactly what you should do. Not 'kick them out' but 'end the tenancy legally'.

They also have concerns about their privacy - pics and videos of their belongings going up on the estate agent website, people coming round to do viewings etc. They'd rather not be there for that. I don't blame them.

But then I have no idea how long it will take to sell, and am concerned about it being empty and me having to cover the mortgage for the place for months on end, as well as the cost of where I live now. Plus which, they've made it look quite nice with them in it - helps to sell?
* welcome to the joys, and costs, of home-ownership, and property selling
* you can easily replicate the 'look quite nice'.

A

As above, there's no question:

* serve proper notice and end the tenancy
* when the property is vacant, smarten it up and advertise
* if the tenants don't leave, evict via the courts
* none of the above stops you allowing some flexibility on tenancy end date to maintain friendly relationsip etc

Now read:

* Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

45002

Ashmil wrote:

Hello, inexperienced (and to be honest, reluctant) landlord here... would be very grateful for advice.

I have been renting a house out to tenants for about 9 months - the house that me and my ex used to live in when together, and still joint own.

When we moved out, the tenants moved in, and the original plan was that they would eventually buy it because they liked it. However it turns out they are having trouble getting a mortgage, so this is now not going to happen. This means we have to put the house on the market instead, which has now been done. Both me and my ex are keen to sell and move on. But the tenants are still there at present.

The question is how to manage the sale of the house with the tenants in it. We are at the '1 month notice required' phase of the tenancy agreement, so there's that. On top of that, we also made a friendly agreement to give each other 2 months notice so that a) they had good chance to find somewhere else to move, b) I'd hopefully have chance to sell and not be left with an empty property I had to cover the mortgage for.

However there are 'counter-concerns' - the tenants said recently they wanted to give their months notice, pay that month's rent, and move out early. Partly because they felt they were in the way, and that if someone does want to buy (it's no chain), they may be put off by waiting for the tenants' notice to expire and for them to get out (true i guess, I could find myself suddenly wishing they weren't there - not that I'd try to kick them out prematurely). They also have concerns about their privacy - pics and videos of their belongings going up on the estate agent website, people coming round to do viewings etc. They'd rather not be there for that.

But then I have no idea how long it will take to sell, and am concerned about it being empty and me having to cover the mortgage for the place for months on end, as well as the cost of where I live now. Plus which, they've made it look quite nice with them in it - helps to sell?

So there are conflicting concerns on both sides... in a perfect world I'd sell it at the moment they moved out, but in reality we're trying to navigate the uncertainty of what will actually happen.

Just wondering if people have any thoughts/experience on navigating this?

Thanks

A

Do hope not, up to 2 years in prison for illegal evictions and damages in the Civil courts

See

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?79318-Selling-house-with-tenants-in

juniordoc

So its on the market now, have you had any viewings yet?

Sounds like your difficulty is going to be paying for an empty house rather than having difficulty getting them to leave.

You need to price this house to sell and fast, or it could take until Christmas! Best of luck.

sulphate

Unless you intend on marketing the house specifically to investors, most buyers are put off by tenants. Their solicitors will insist on the property being vacant before exchange.

Case in point. There is a nice family sized house near us in a desirable village/location, near good schools etc, that has been on the market since beginning of January (unusual for this area) and has just been reduced. It is tenanted and they won't commit to leaving on x date. As well as this, obviously they are under no obligation to keep the house clean and tidy so it is in a bit of a state at the moment. I know this because we viewed it!

Personally, if your tenants are happy to give notice and move out asap, I would accept this and be prepared for the possibility of the house being empty before you sell. Give it a lick of paint and price it to sell, and hopefully it won't be on the market very long. Then, it suddenly becomes a much more desirable property - no chain and good price.

Red-Squirrel_2

Maybe you need to save up enough to comfortably cover say, 6 months void before you put it on the market?

Ashmil

Knew I'd get my !!! kicked on here a bit!

I'm in Wales.

Deposit is protected, PI served, EPC & GSC served etc etc - did all that.

And in response to some of the earlier comments, they are the ones who want to leave sooner, I've been preferring that they stay on!

The tenancy agreement is periodic after the 6 month phase. We're talking about THEM giving ME notice, not the other way round.

"If you stay on after the end of your fixed term, your tenancy will continue as a monthly tenancy which will run from month to month, starting on the day after your fixed term ended (this is called a periodic tenancy). You can end this periodic tenancy at any time by giving us not less than one month’s notice in writing, the notice period to run from the start of the next monthly period"

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my OP.

They have not given proper notice yet. We are talking about what we both want and then we'll formalise it.

No viewings yet. yes need to get it sold. The original plan was that these tenants would buy it, as I said. Hoped it would never have to go on the market.

gettingtheresometime

My view, unpopular as it is, is that you seem to want your cake & eat it.

Your tenants, who you may or not have rented to had you known they wouldn't have been able to get a mortgage, have said they want to leave within a month for personal reasons connected to the property been placed on the market.

That obviously doesn't suit you (no income).

What you seem to want is the house is placed on the market and only when it is sold, do you want the tenants to move out with no issues, which may or may not put off potential purchasers.

You can't have it both ways.

FBaby

Give them 2 months notice. If they want to negotiate less, then let them do so.

They seem to understand the situation better than you. They are right that you will have a better chance to sell if they have already left because the worse that can happen, and it certainly does, if they decided not to go and you will have to take them to court to evict them which can take many month. Of course, they could also decide to also stop paying rent at this point.

So by your intention to secure rent until the house is sold, you are risking having no more rent and a buyer who runs away, having to pay a lot of money to evict them and many month before you can sell the house anyway. They might be very pleasant tenants now, but you'd be surprised how nice tenants turn spiteful when they fell used for their rent money.