Changing to non Economy 7 meter

EachPenny

Cardew wrote: »

The latter tariff to Oct 2017 for my area(Midlands) is 9.02p/kWh elect/2.541p/kWh gas with a 21.809p DSC for each. I am a high user.

Thanks Cardew. That electricity figure gets close to what I pay on my low rate :eek:

ChaunceyGardiner

Demand management is all very well, but installing E7 meters in new properties with gas central heating does seem rather cynical.

System

ChaunceyGardiner wrote: »

Demand management is all very well, but installing E7 meters in new properties with gas central heating does seem rather cynical.

It has been going off for years and years. Whole new estates, all built in the 1980 s with gas central heating of course but with eco 7 meters..just to satisfy the power stations. The suppliers love it ! Over the years many have twigged and had the meters ripped out for good but there are many who still do not understand what a kwh is are stuck on a stupid high/low meter which has no right to be there in the first place. I have worked in towns all over the North and as far south as Peterbrough where I found the same thing there.Newish estates with GCH. built in the last 30/40 years but with eco 7 metering. In my view if a consumer uses less than say 15% of total on the night rate for a year the suppliers should get in there and exchange the meter for single raters without waiting to be told about it and stop thieving off those who don t know the system. Why OFGEM have nt stopped this theft is beyond me because they have done some good things in the last few years.
Eachpenny, we don t want suppliers totaling the two..Many of the cheapest suppliers cannot do that. Its better now than it was .A few years back some of the big 6 could nt do it. We do not want to be tied to a supplier, like BG charging the highest tariffs because their computers can add the two together. We want to be changing around to the new ones cropping up all the time who undercut the big six, like Iresa limited for instance.

EachPenny

As a meter reader, when you go to a house to read a meter do you know what tariff the customer is on?

I don't mean do you know what kind of meter they have, but whether your handheld device actually tells you this customer is being billed on 'x' tariff?

Also, if you have the technical knowledge on the subject, can you explain why is it not possible for small suppliers to add two numbers together and produce a bill based on that number? In 1969 the USA put men on the moon, I'd love to understand the technical barriers that mean 48 years after that great feat we are told that energy companies are incapable of adding two digits together.

EachPenny

ChaunceyGardiner wrote: »

Demand management is all very well, but installing E7 meters in new properties with gas central heating does seem rather cynical.

You can have gas central heating and still benefit from E7. Needing to use electrical heating for E7 to be cheaper is a myth spread by people who don't understand how dual-rate charging works.

You also have to separate the installation of one type of meter from what the customer actually pays for. A dual-rate or E7 meter may be in use on a supply being charged at a single rate. An E7 meter doesn't always mean an E7 supply.

Cardew

House_Martin wrote: »

It has been going off for years and years. Whole new estates, all built in the 1980 s with gas central heating of course but with eco 7 meters..

A couple of years ago we had posts from two contributors(who appeared knowledgeable) who were living in new build blocks of flats with no gas.

They were adamant that all the apartments in their block had E7 meters and were on an E7 tariff. However the wiring of each flat was such that only their storage heaters and immersion heaters used off-peak electricity - all other electricity for lights, sockets was on peak rate 24/7.

I appreciate that might not be the correct definition of Economy 7 - where all electrical consumption for 7 hours is at off-peak rate - and is akin to legacy tariffs(white label etc).

ChaunceyGardiner

EachPenny wrote: »

You can have gas central heating and still benefit from E7. Needing to use electrical heating for E7 to be cheaper is a myth spread by people who don't understand how dual-rate charging works.

I don't doubt it. But, in practice, most people are not sufficiently organised or willing to regularly run washing machines, dishwashers etc. overnight.

Raxiel

EachPenny wrote: »

...
Also, if you have the technical knowledge on the subject, can you explain why is it not possible for small suppliers to add two numbers together and produce a bill based on that number? In 1969 the USA put men on the moon, I'd love to understand the technical barriers that mean 48 years after that great feat we are told that energy companies are incapable of adding two digits together.

It's not a big company/small company thing. I think its a "won't, not can't" thing.

Scottish power, one of the big six won't combine them, Troubled small supplier Iresa, for all their faults, will.

They don't even need to combine readings, just a tariff that has the same day and night rates would fit the tariff framework.

I don't know the reasoning behind it, but the cynic in me would point out that combining the readings only helps customers pay less for the same amount of energy when their usage profile doesn't fit well with E7, and doesn't do much for the energy companies bottom line.

EachPenny

ChaunceyGardiner wrote: »

I don't doubt it. But, in practice, most people are not sufficiently organised or willing to regularly run washing machines, dishwashers etc. overnight.

Quite right, it is this type of customer lethargy which crops up time and time again when energy pricing is discussed. The usual 'solution' is some form of additional regulation which often has negative impacts on other customers - the recent PPM cap being an example.

The solution House Martin is proposing is something along the lines of declaring all E7 meters 'enemies of the people', organising raiding parties to go round 'ripping them out' and perhaps he'll only be happy when there are piles of E7 meters being burnt in the streets.

The solution is far simpler and less costly: Require all suppliers to print on their bills a message, similar to the ones they already do about other tariffs being available, which simply states

You are on a (standard/E7)* tariff. Based on your consumption you could save £xxx by changing to our (standard/E7)* tariff. There is no cost to you of asking us to make this change for you.
(*delete as applicable)

Or better still, for the supplier to calculate the bill based on E7 and standard rates and simply charge the customer the lower of the two.

This is not rocket science. Claiming small suppliers cannot add figures together and/or print bills with different messages on them simply doesn't stack up.

House Martin is attacking the wrong target.

System

Dont be a donkey Eachpenny and don`t attribute statements to me like House Martin thinks that "eco 7 meters are enemies of the state ( and I certainly do ask users what tariffs they are on and when they are prepay customers, I don t have to..its on the meter ! ). . "Eco 7 is ideal for all electric properties and of course night storage heaters..but that is it..In my job I have a position to see what you posters cannot envisage. the MAJORITY of eco 7 meters I see are either fitted to properties with GCH or are legacy meters from old night storage users. Old diehards who won t be sensible and buy GCH and dump their stupid heated up old bricks which go cold when the weather is at its coldest are quite rare nowadays..Some villages I see do not have a gas supply but they are very rare too.
All suppliers can see the usage of someone on Eco 7 and they know to the penny when a user is overpaying against a single rate tariff. What YOU need to get into your head Eachpenny is that MOST people do not understand gas and electric bills.They do not know what a KWH is, they do not understand their bills and if they are on prepayment eco 7 ( very common ) its even more likely they don t understand gas/lecky billing. They have to be saved from their own lack of knowledge by being protected by OFGEM to watch out for suppliers ripping them off. Why do you think over 60% of people are still on standard/variable and have never switched ? More people than ever are on prepayment meters. In areas where Eco 7 have been installed (to help the power stations keep a night shift running ) I can see their meter tariffs clearly when I read the meters and they are on some horrendous day rates
Eco 7 meters in properties with GCH are out of place and should not be there and in many properties they should never have been installed in the first place.One poster has just said that Scott ish Power , one of the giants , cannot total the two rates..How many more cannot do this ? Even if they could , they do not go out of their way to inform the customer and automatically transfer them to single rate tariffs..I am not attacking Eco 7 meters, I m attacking robbing suppliers and OFGEM for not protecting customers from being taken advantage of.