Changing to non Economy 7 meter

EachPenny

Cardew wrote: »

I suspect the cost of changing the accounting software is the reason.

That would make a lot more sense than a difference in the cost of meter, but only if it is necessary to reprogram the software - surely all they need to do is to set up a 'special' E7 type tariff which has the same charges for day and night kWh's.

You'd hope their accounting software would have been written in such a way additional tariffs can be added without too much difficulty - but then maybe we shouldn't take too much for granted.

System

spiro wrote: »

Of course not, the point is all large (50k+) suppliers are required to be able to bill a customer who has a 2-rate meter on a single rate tariff without the need to swap the meter so the poster has no need of a meter swap.

All the best tariffs now for electric are with the smaller suppliers who may not be able to bill eco 7 as a single tariff..Consumers need to be able to compare the whole market not just the big 6 , the meter needs to be exchanged and rewired to single tariff only in the long run.

EachPenny

House_Martin wrote: »

Consumers need to be able to compare the whole market not just the big 6 , the meter needs to be exchanged and rewired to single tariff only in the long run.

On the contrary, unless a dual-rate meter is retained/provided the consumer won't know their proportion of night and day consumption and therefore would be unable to get an accurate comparison of the whole market. The whole market includes a variety of tariffs, not just a variety of suppliers. For a given set of circumstances the cheapest option may be an Economy7 tariff (even one from the big 6) rather than the very cheapest single-rate tariff from a small supplier.

Unless you have a dual-rate meter you either have to guess your consumption split based on the appliances you have, or else use a generic average split. If everybody had dual-rate meters then the comparison and decision making process would be more likely to result in the cheapest overall deal for the individual consumer.

Being able to bill a dual-rate metered supply as single-rate should be as simple as setting up a new tariff. If a supplier - even a small one - has a billing system which doesn't allow them to add a new tariff then something is fundamentally wrong and maybe they shouldn't be allowed to supply energy to anyone?

Cardew

The problem since privatisation has been the huge variation in the proportion of off-peak(E7) consumption needed to 'break even'.

That has varied by company, tariff, and geographical area.

The 'accepted norm' used to be about 30% E7 consumption. However for a while it was possible with one company(the now defunct London Electricity) on a E7 tariff to actually have the peak rate(for 17 hours) cheaper than their non E7 tariff - both a competitive tariff.

Apart from that exceptional case, the 'break even' point has often been as low as 10%, and sometimes as high as 40%.

Although with gas CH, my normal off-peak consumption is around 20% and often an E7 tariff was the most competitive option.

System

I am referring to eco 7 meter users who do not need eco 7 and have never needed it. From my many years experience as a meter reader for BG this a vast number of customers who are saddled with eco 7 useless meters when they do not possess all electric heating/night storage. Whole towns were inflicted with these stupid money suckers for no other reason but to help keep the power stations running and encourage night electricity use with a cheaper rate. Retford and Sutton in Ashfield for example have many thousands of Eco 7 meters installed in newish properties with gas central heating on day one. Advice to anyone who has gas central heating should be to rid themselves of the two rate meters at the cheapest possible price and not just to get the supplier to total the two reads. In my town night storage heating is very rare but horrible eco 7 meters are not. Many eco 7 prepayment meter users are paying through the nose for their day rate and they have no idea why they have this meter installed. Its daylight robbery by the suppliers extracting super high day rates to users who do not have any knowledge about meters.BG,Scot Power, EDF etc should be taking it upon themselves to switch the meters to single rate only.They have all the historic data available to see they are using extremely low percentage of night rate and a an Eco 7 robbing meter is nt justified.Hopefully OFGEM will be forced to act on these suppliers taking advantage of these meters and make them exchange them free.

EachPenny

Cardew wrote: »

Although with gas CH, my normal off-peak consumption is around 20% and often an E7 tariff was the most competitive option.

Are you currently on E7 with a split that low then? If you don't mind me asking, who are you with?

My off-peak consumption ranges from about 20% to 40% - some weeks I gain, some I lose. I use gas for space heating, but only in the coldest months. Water heating is electric overnight all-year round. In the winter I get some off-peak consumption before going to bed and in the summer some off-peak after getting up. A load of washing or a dishwasher run can make the difference either side of break even, but as my total consumption is usually low the difference either side is typically pennies per week.

Without the E7 meter I would have no way of knowing which tariff was cheaper - so in my opinion having compulsory dual-rate meters (but optional charging structures) would be a sensible change to government energy policy.

EachPenny

House_Martin wrote: »

Its daylight robbery by the suppliers extracting super high day rates to users

...is the only part of your post I agree with.

Don't blame the meter, all it does is measure. It is Ofgem, the suppliers and the customers who are at fault if they are paying more for their electricity than they should.

Cardew

EachPenny wrote: »

Are you currently on E7 with a split that low then? If you don't mind me asking, who are you with?

From my post#2

I am with BG and have an Economy 7 meter but am not on an Economy 7 tariff. All that happens is BG add the totals from the two registers together and I am charged at a single rate. e.g. If I use, say, 1,000kWh 'daytime' and 150kWh night time(E7) I am charged for 1,150kWh at a single rate.

I switched to BG for my last two tariffs using the MSE collective tariffs - which were considerably cheaper than anything else, but not on E7.

The latter tariff to Oct 2017 for my area(Midlands) is 9.02p/kWh elect/2.541p/kWh gas with a 21.809p DSC for each. I am a high user.

System

EachPenny wrote: »

...is the only part of your post I agree with.

Don't blame the meter, all it does is measure. It is Ofgem, the suppliers and the customers who are at fault if they are paying more for their electricity than they should.

I ve just sent yet another complaint to OFGEM about this robbery.Some posters on here will remember me saying the same thing 10 years ago.I don t care if you do not agree with me, you are not experienced enough to have any knowledge of what is going on out there.Armchair posters like you can have your say but when you have seen what I have seen in the past two decades maybe I will listen to you.Eco 7 meters have been deliberately installed in hundreds of towns and cities only to encourage low rate use just to keep the power stations occupied.Users are clocking up less than 10 % night usage and less and the suppliers are sitting back doing nothing but raking it in with horrendous day rates for prepay meters who are probably the poorest in the UK.. Suppliers should automatically exchange the eco 7 meter for single rate but they don t.They want to keep them trapped paying 60% and more for their electric than they need.Its no good totalling the two , they need to get away from big 6 prices for good.

EachPenny

House_Martin wrote: »

I don t care if you do not agree with me, you are not experienced enough to have any knowledge of what is going on out there.Armchair posters like you can have your say but when you have seen what I have seen in the past two decades maybe I will listen to you.

Hmmm. I'd just like to point out that you have no idea who I am and what experience or knowledge I have.

I also don't own an armchair.

If what you have seen in the last two decades is...

House_Martin wrote: »

...a vast number of customers who are saddled with eco 7 useless meters when they do not possess all electric heating/night storage.

...and this is the basis of your knowledge of the subject, then perhaps it is me who shouldn't be listening to you.

You do not need to have "all electric heating/night storage" for Economy 7 to potentially be cheaper than single rate. This is not opinion, it is fact. Reading meters and checking if the household has storage heaters does not provide a reliable evidence base for formulating energy policy.

House_Martin wrote: »

Eco 7 meters have been deliberately installed in hundreds of towns and cities only to encourage low rate use just to keep the power stations occupied.

Yes, an absolutely true and well publicised fact. An electricity generation and transmission system which has large differences between peak and minimum demand cannot be run efficiently. The same statement applies to many types of service including the railways and airlines. You have to cater for peak demand, then have expensive assets sitting around not doing much in the troughs. Demand management seeks to shift some of the usage away from the peaks to reduce the peak load and therefore minimise the total installed generating capacity required. Precisely the same reason why railways and airlines charge more for tickets at peak times, and offer extra-cheap tickets when it is quieter.

Offering cheap rate electricity at low demand times is a very sensible energy policy.

House_Martin wrote: »

Its no good totalling the two , they need to get away from big 6 prices for good.

You obviously understand how meters work. Can you please explain to this armchair poster how one meter recording use of 150 kWh is any different to one meter separately recording 100 kWh and 50 kWh and someone or something adding the two figures together to get 150 kWh?

Many thanks.