UK Affordability still very good

ruperts

Another bunch of completely fabricated numbers.

- average house prices fundamentally incorrect
- totally ignores buying costs
- totally ignores initial costs to make house habitable
- purely fictional average salaries
- take home pay proportion wildly incorrect
- nobody ever has any salary deductions
- everybody can get the best mortgage rate on the market
- mortgage rates never go up from their initial period
- mortgage lenders completely ignore affordability criteria
- saving tens of thousands of pounds for a deposit happens instantly

ukcarper

WengerIn wrote: »

And then instead of borrowing 8x your income you're borrowing 9 or 10.

The fundamental problem with all Ape's threads like this is that they're rubbish. On my figures you saved ten grand a year, more in fact. Only trouble is you save for 5.5 years and borrow 8.7x your income.

I think it's reasonable to expect a single person to buy a one bed flat. Using GreatApe's figures with a 10% deposit they would need a 5.5x earnings mortgage which i think he would struggle to get and if he did it wouldn't be a 2%. So as I said his post is flawed but it would be posible to save deposit in a couple of years.

Windofchange

GreatApe wrote: »

85% are not in private renting, you are trying to argue homes are so unaffordable and rents sky high but only 15% rent (2011 census) and the figure is even lower for the UK born and the migrants tend to be much more likely to rent (over 70% of recent 0-5 year migrants rent privately)

So all your energy is arguing that this 15% who rent privately are getting shafted and its impossible for them to buy. Let me ask how low do you think this 15% private renting should fall? To zero percent? is that desirable or possible? If not then what figure should private renting fall to maybe 10%? If so your argument is that 1.4 of the 28.4 million households are not in an ideal position. That would mean 27/28.4 million are in an ideal position = 95% of them

From the census:

"Of the 23.4 million homes (or households) in England and Wales on census day in March 2011, 15 million (64 per cent) were owner occupied and 8.3 million (36 per cent) were rented."

Where do you get the idea that only 15% of people rent? Note the above is households too, so takes no consideration of for instance there being two young working adults in that household who might want to buy / rent.

I put up a number of links and articles previously which of course you have just ignored because they don't agree with you and you are incapable of formulating any sort of come back to them other than to move the subject on with another load of nonsense. And of course you have economic demonstrating his lack of education by clapping along to every post you make.

Any answers to the above?

ukcarper

Windofchange wrote: »

From the census:

"Of the 23.4 million homes (or households) in England and Wales on census day in March 2011, 15 million (64 per cent) were owner occupied and 8.3 million (36 per cent) were rented."

Where do you get the idea that only 15% of people rent? Note the above is households too, so takes no consideration of for instance there being two young working adults in that household who might want to buy / rent.

I put up a number of links and articles previously which of course you have just ignored because they don't agree with you and you are incapable of formulating any sort of come back to them other than to move the subject on with another load of nonsense. And of course you have economic demonstrating his lack of education by clapping along to every post you make.

Any answers to the above?

I think he's talking about private renting half of renters are in social housing.

Windofchange

ukcarper wrote: »

Using GreatApe's figures

You'd get more accuracy banging your fists on a calculator and seeing what came out the other side.

ukcarper wrote: »

So as I said his post is flawed but it would be posible to save deposit in a couple of years.

And do what with it seeing as you say that someone would struggle to get a 5.5 x earnings mortgage?

Windofchange

ukcarper wrote: »

I think he's talking about private renting half of renters are in social housing.

Ok, silly me, of course.

So, if we take private renters who are not foreigners, don't have children, don't own an iPhone, don't drink beer, don't have a car, don't need to commute to work, don't ever eat out, who are in a stable relationship, who both earn the same as the other, who aren't Bulgarian, who save from the age of 18 at more than the national savings rate, who have no student debt...Did I get it all?

Ok.

And then lets take out the 21% of households who are in social housing.

Look, told you, affordable housing.

GreatApe

ruperts wrote: »

Another bunch of completely fabricated numbers.
- average house prices fundamentally incorrect

The data for prices is from the Land Registry Website

- totally ignores buying costs

Not a big consideration outside of London, eg £170,000 property would have a £900 stamp duty and you are looking at a little above £1,000 for solicitors lets say £2,000 in total. You pay that once and then dont pay it again for 20-25 years (average time between house purchases). While a renter would likely have to pay similar if not more in agent fees over the same 20-25 years

- totally ignores initial costs to make house habitable

Second hand furniture is cheap and if you are renting furnished that is second hand anyway.

Also I quoted average house prices so you have a lot of choice to pick one to your liking.

- purely fictional average salaries

Data from the ONS 2016

- take home pay proportion wildly incorrect

Calculated using this very websites income tax calculator

- nobody ever has any salary deductions

whats that to do with this?

- everybody can get the best mortgage rate on the market

This is true, however it does not make that much of a difference. On £100k borrowed the top rate will give £374 repayment mortgage while a much lessor rate will cost £395 repayment so £20 per month difference.

- mortgage rates never go up from their initial period

Mortgage rates never go down from their initial period ........

- saving tens of thousands of pounds for a deposit happens instantly

Could do for some, ie Family Gifts Inheritances part of the annual £200 billion

ukcarper

Windofchange wrote: »

You'd get more accuracy banging your fists on a calculator and seeing what came out the other side.




And do what with it seeing as you say that someone would struggle to get a 5.5 x earnings mortgage?

That's the point I'm trying to make saving the deposit is not the problem it's getting the mortgage, so to make it clear if you earn enough to get mortgage you should be able to save deposit.

I would say a good definition of affordable would be that If 4x earnings + a 10% is the same or higher than house price the property is affordable.

Windofchange

ukcarper wrote: »

That's the point I'm trying to make saving the deposit is not the problem it's getting the mortgage, so to make it clear if you earn enough to get mortgage you should be able to save deposit.

I would say a good definition of affordable would be that If 4x earnings + a 10% is the same or higher than house price the property is affordable.

In which case I could agree with you in regards to saving as long as someone earns enough. As you get down towards minimum wage the ability to save becomes less - you just have to look at the fact that 16 million adults have no savings to see that as a population we either can't or don't want to save.

Housing has typically hovered around the 3 - 4 x salary mark, and this is affordable. What we have at the moment is insanity, especially in London. I say this as someone who has benefitted on paper from crazy prices too. It can't go on.

GreatApe

Windofchange wrote: »

From the census:

"Of the 23.4 million homes (or households) in England and Wales on census day in March 2011, 15 million (64 per cent) were owner occupied and 8.3 million (36 per cent) were rented."

Where do you get the idea that only 15% of people rent? Note the above is households too, so takes no consideration of for instance there being two young working adults in that household who might want to buy / rent.

I put up a number of links and articles previously which of course you have just ignored because they don't agree with you and you are incapable of formulating any sort of come back to them other than to move the subject on with another load of nonsense. And of course you have economic demonstrating his lack of education by clapping along to every post you make.

Any answers to the above?

Which links did you post that you are unhappy I ignored? I assume they were from the likes of the guardian or shelter? Thanks but no thanks, give me raw data




14.7% of UK born live in private rentals

Keep in mind that we do not need to want to reduce that figure to 0% because having zero private rentals would be a bad idea for obvious reasons. So If you think private rentals are too high what figure would you be happy to see them fall to? I would say 10% which means all your arguments are about 2.25 million persons living in less than 1 million rental properties.

So out of about 24 million properties in England and Wales your argument is that 1 million of them are not in ideal conditions. The cup is 96% full and your crying that its 4% empty