Parking Eye Postal PCN (No contravention mentioned)

Simeon_E

Hello, let me first mention that I have read the newbie page and I think allot of people are doing great work here. It's all very much appreciated. Having read the newbie page I understand how most of it works.

Preparing a first appeal to parking eye.

The vehicle was parked at the Aloft Hotel Excel Centre car park. The driver tried to use the paybyphone mobile website to pay but it kept logging out at the payment page. The driver eventually paid for parking after downloading the paybyphone mobile app and the driver paid for exactly 4 hours of parking from 16:13 - 20:13. There is a receipt for this.
A PCN was sent to the registered keeper from parking eye less than 7 days after, with the POFA statement included. However, there is no description of the actual contravention they are charging £100 for.
The PCN just states that the car was parked for 4 hours and 47 mins along with the time the vehicle entered the car park, 15:44:58 and the time the vehicle left, 20:32:36 and two photos (although the second photo is just a jet black image with the vehicle license plate which could have been taken in or out of the car park, or anywhere). The PCN does NOT say anything about, "no valid payment or permit". The driver did however pay for 4 hours, the issue with the instructed paybyphone parking website delayed the payment.

The keeper has started the first appeal to Parkingeye (due in a couple of days), without naming driver.

My question is, what is the situation when No actual contravention is listed or described on the Postal PCN? Should the keeper mention this in the first appeal and also at Popla?

Also, with this specific case, what are the grounds of appeal at POPLA? The driver may have read the signs to know to use paybyphone.

I have searched the forum but cannot find a similar case. Any help would be greatly appreciated. There was no windscreen ticket, just a postal PCN sent a few days after the event.

Coupon-mad

Yes you could mention it as long as the driver isn't implied.

At POPLA stage you can use the long POPLA templates in the NEWBIES thread post #3, plus as this was a 'distance contract' involving an app, you could add a section on the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. As per any other thread that used it before (search the forum for an unusual keyword or two). Not that POPLA understand that point, but it makes the POPLA appeal longer!

And frustration of contract can be thrown in for good measure - their paybyphone website was not working, therefore the contract was frustrated and in fact only started from when the money was paid (the delay being no fault of the driver).

As well as the NTK failing to state the parking charges already paid. Was it received within 14 days?

Redx

edit post #1 and only say either THE DRIVER or THE KEEPER

you should know by now that any use of the words "ME , MYSELF or I" are banned

Simeon_E

Hi and thanks fir the response.

Yes it was sent within 14 days. Shal i attache copy of PCN for you to see? (Is this safe to do)

Redx

it is if you redact personal info and references etc , except this is not a hosting site so you cannot attach files here , so use tinypic or photobucket instead

and you still have not edited post #1 , despite my earlier warning

who entered and left ???????????

do you really want to put a witness statement on behalf of the claimant on a public website easily accessed by up to 7 billion people ?

do you really think the PPC dont know how to take screenshots of posts ?

especially a claimant that issues up to 30 thousand court claims per annum and beat BARRY BEAVIS 3 times in 3 different courts with 10 out of 11 judges on their side ?

and the jet black photos are because they use ANPR cameras and those photos deliberately change the attributes in order to enhance the VRM (its not a passport photo they are taking)

see this blog http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/smart-parking-ticket-shopping-trolley.html

read parking pranksters other blog explanantion about ANPR cameras

Simeon_E

Thanks RedX. All valid points. For now I will post my 1st appeal to parking i.
I did contact the landowner first with receipts etc. but they do not seem keen to get involved because I used the paybyphone app rather their own payment method inside the building.

Please let me know what you think of the appeal and whether I should just cut most of it and mention that no contravention has been listed on the posal PCN.
Ok, here is my 1st appea:l

---

To whom it may concern,

I am challenging this PCN, as the keeper of the vehicle in question, for the following reason:

The Parking charge indicates that vehicle (xxxxxxxxxx) was parked in the XXXXXXXX car park from 15:45 to 20:32 on the XXXXXX 2017. The driver at the time did indeed park the vehicle in this carpark after having lunch at the XXXX and while working at the XXXXXXX. Payment for parking had been budgeted by the client the driver was working for, so the driver had no reason not to pay for parking.

The driver has stated that they attempted to pay for the parking by the instructed means in the carpark which was through a website called paybyphone.co.uk. The driver said there was no option to pay instantly with cash so they decided to follow the payment method on the PaybyPhone website via their mobile phone. According to the driver they first had to go through a signup process and register a payment card. The driver said that this took some minutes and when the driver finally signed up and registered a payment card, the website would send the driver back to the login page whenever they tried to input the location number and purchase the parking option. After a few failed attempts the driver then tried a different web browser on their mobile phone for the paybyphone website but the same problem kept happening. The paybyphone website would not allow the driver to make the payment. The driver stated that they tried it many times through the website with the same problem. They then decided to download the paybyphone app and restart the signup process. Through the downloaded app and a different registered account payment was eventually accepted by paybyphone app on the drivers phone. It was 16:13 when the payment was finally accepted online by paybyphone after continuous attempts by the driver to pay for the parking and at this point the driver paid for 4 hours of parking. This payment can be seen by the drivers parking receipt for the sum of £9.30and the driver can also provide bank statements to show the payment if needed. The driver states that they then returned to the car when the already paid for parking was ending. The driver then drove the car attempting to leave the car park via the single exit and then immediately left the carpark when the sole exit was clear of vehicles and it was possible to do so.

Therefore, taking into account errors with the instructed paybyphone payment method, grace time, the driver leaving the car park only when the single exit was clear near the end of the paid parking time and the proof of the parking payment made when it was finally accepted by the provided payment method (paybyphone), I find this charge of £100 to the driver unfair and I ask you to please cancel it.


Yours sincerely,
xxxxxxxxx (registered keeper of XXXXXXXX)

Redx

I assume you dont wish to use the blue text template then ?

if you are going with the above, look up the terms of "frustration of contract" and add those words and a sentence about it in the initial appeal , because that is the legal jargon for "what happened"

ps:= although you have edited post #1 , the word I still appears in places where it shouldnt , please edit it again

these schoolboy errors whould not be occurring and its good practice to start right now , no first person accounts

the "contravention is an "overstay" , or failed to pay for the duration on site , as opposed to the time "parked" (in their eyes)

Simeon_E

Here is an edited copy of the PCN. I'm away from home at the moment with no scanner so had to use mobile phone camera but it is readable enough.
Notice no mention of contravention or am I missing something tricky?

Below is the link to the PCN. (I omitted the 'http' because as a new user, the forum wouldn't let me post links):

i66.tinypic.com/2cffgvn.jpg
(you can copy and paste this link in your browser)

Simeon_E

Hi RedX, thank you again for your sharpness and your patience. Has been a long day so Apologies.

I have used the blue template before but I felt it didn't quite fit this specific situation. I guess a part of me is hoping a little (or dreaming) that I may get past on first appeal. I have won on first appeals before, albeit with councils. If it gets rejected I will still get a POPLA code.

"the "contravention is an "overstay" , or failed to pay for the duration on site , as opposed to the time "parked" (in their eyes) "

As you can see from the PCN no contravention is described or listed. Is this a winning point at first appeal or Popla?

Redx

LIVE LINK http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2cffgvn&s=9#.WQExLMa1tPZ

the issue is listed as paragraph 3

starting BY EITHER

personally , I dont think its an issue and I dont think that particular issue would win at appeal stage or at popla appeal stage

any winning appeal will be based on the usual legal arguments

Simeon_E

RedX You're right. I will send my appeal tomorrow (It needs to get to them by Friday latest). I will use your legal terms and arguments. Thank you very much for this.

I may also be in luck. While going back and forth with you I received an email from the land owner this evening. They said they will cancel the PCN if I send them a clear copy of it (I sent them a mobile camera copy earlier which was even worse than the one you saw posted here).
I have now sent them the copy you saw and I will send a proper scanned copy by Saturday latest.

Once, or if, the PCN is cancelled I will share more details on here.

Thanks again RedX (get some sleep)