Private Parking fine may be claiming to be above the law?

raz123

I've had a look at the IPC code of practice and found the grace period Part B 15.1 but I'm just unsure on exactly how to approach them on this (since the timing they put was what I had paid for and if I mention the exact time first they may send out a further notice with the correct time?) do I just send a full email stating the timing is incorrect and the grace period should apply as well as the 14 day rule still applies to them under IPC code of practice Part C 5.1(m)?

Guys_Dad

POFA only protect you as Registered Keeper. Have you admitted to being driver?

Also is there a no return within 2 hours or similar?

fisherjim

These are the parking conditions for the site:

http://www.brockholes.org/visit/car-parking/

Loadsofchildren123

Guys_Dad wrote: »

POFA only protect you as Registered Keeper. Have you admitted to being driver?

Also is there a no return within 2 hours or similar?

Even if no return, he didn't "park" the first time, so that wouldn't apply (the website doesn't suggest there is a no return anyway).

We have come back round to the issue of whether you are better off defending as driver. If you refuse to id the driver, but then produce all sorts of detail about the first visit being only 5 minutes and being adamant you paid for the other hour, you infer you were the driver and then a judge is quite likely to make a finding you were.

I think you have a good defence as driver:
1. you didn't park the first time, and grace periods apply. As driver you can embelish the hows and whys and whats of what you did. As keeper you can't.
2. you parked the second time and paid. You may well not have the receipt any more, but you are your own evidence, you don't have to have the receipt (although obviously it helps). Was anyone else with who can do a statement evidencing the fact that you paid? You can also request their records showing you paid - if they refuse to produce them then they haven't satisfied the burden of proof which is on them - as Claimant they have to prove their claim, ie that you didn't pay. If they have computerised records that would easily show this that they don't produce then the clear inference is that you did pay and that's what you'd invite the judge to find.

Loadsofchildren123

Going direct to the 'retailer' often works wonders. Could you approach the management of the nature reserve to see if they can get it cancelled? Be quite bullish (the first answer will often be it's nothing to do with us - but it's everything to do with them!
The fact that having briefly entered and not stayed, you did then come back (and paid properly) so as a customer they should want to encourage your goodwill.

bargepole

raz123 wrote: »

Might be getting the hang of this replying now! :rotfl: in terms of using PoFA in my appeal it was as follows:- The Notice to Keeper failed to meet the obligations of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Schedule 4, paragraph 9(5) specifies the time limits for serving a ‘Notice to Keeper’ in order for it to be valid, namely, not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked. this was then just followed by specifying when the incident took place and when the issue was given (showing 20 days later) other than that not much else was mentioned.

Forget all that POFA stuff, it's not relevant if you were the driver and are the keeper.

As LOC123 has indicated, you have a much better chance of defending as the driver, and you should concentrate on the facts of what actually happened, rather than trying to be clever with legal points which won't impress a Judge.

raz123

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

Going direct to the 'retailer' often works wonders. Could you approach the management of the nature reserve to see if they can get it cancelled? Be quite bullish (the first answer will often be it's nothing to do with us - but it's everything to do with them!
The fact that having briefly entered and not stayed, you did then come back (and paid properly) so as a customer they should want to encourage your goodwill.

I actually saw this post after I had done what you said and am I glad! However your earlier post in regards to emailing them about the driver liability was brilliant so I drafted out the email as you said and before sending it, out of frustration I ended up ringing the number provided in the email I explained how confused I was as to what exactly I'm being charged for since the letter didn't seem right etc etc in the end the lady (was very nice) explained what the charges were for. Long story short to my surprise she said she'll cancel the fine due to the complications and the understandable confusion!!

Can I just say thank you so much for taking your time out to help me on this I really appreciate it, was very stressed (exam period) and your info was of great help! If you're not already well you need to consider a career in the legal field! Can finally sit my exams from tomorrow in peace!!

safarmuk

I actually saw this post after I had done what you said and am I glad! However your earlier post in regards to emailing them about the driver liability was brilliant so I drafted out the email as you said and before sending it, out of frustration I ended up ringing the number provided in the email I explained how confused I was as to what exactly I'm being charged for since the letter didn't seem right etc etc in the end the lady (was very nice) explained what the charges were for. Long story short to my surprise she said she'll cancel the fine due to the complications and the understandable confusion!!

Who did you speak to and who cancelled it, Park with Ease?
I would advise you get the cancellation confirmation in writing (letter or email) directly from Park with Ease ... without that it is never really cancelled (or at least you have no proof it was) and could re-materialize at some point in the future. Don't know what Park with Ease are like but it has been known with other PPC's.

Loadsofchildren123

Well done OP, what a relief (and a rarity in the private parking universe).


Do as safarmuk says and email them to confirm what was said, and ask for their confirmation in writing that it has been cancelled.


I am a lawyer btw

raz123

bargepole wrote: »

Forget all that POFA stuff, it's not relevant if you were the driver and are the keeper.

As LOC123 has indicated, you have a much better chance of defending as the driver, and you should concentrate on the facts of what actually happened, rather than trying to be clever with legal points which won't impress a Judge.

Yeah I know what you mean to be honest I always assumed facts were immaterial as opposed to stating the legal grounds - anyway will take that on board and thank you very much for your advice I feel relieved now as it has been solved!