John Lewis and returning a product bought online

abmcell

Hi folks

Would welcome some advice if possible.

Very short version - bought a Dyson v8 animal online through John Lewis online, paid via paypal. Received the item on Friday, charged it for 24 hours, used it Saturday and the battery power was very poor, put back in the box and tried to return today - in my possession 2 days. Went into their store today to try and return. They said because I had used it, I couldn't return it.

I asked about the Distant Selling Regulations and they said they didn't apply because it had been used.

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Long Verison,

Needed a handheld vacuum and looked at the V6, but the Dyson V8 was £200 more and claimed to have 40 minutes battery time compared to 20 minutes on the v6, and it had 150% increased brush speed. What they don't tell you is that the 40 minutes is only if you now use the reduced speed setting.

Basically they haven't increased the battery power by 100% at all, they have just introduced a new slower setting than the V6. They market it disingenuously though because they put it next to the 150% increase in brush speed.

Anyway, when I used it the minimal speed was useless and the max speed only lasted 6 minutes.

John Lewis said it states this on their web page, but I've checked and got screen shots and no it doesn't. It says

Battery life Information 40mins - nothing about 6-7 minutes that she claimed it did. I have screen shots now.

I guess that stuff is for later if it goes to court, but what do you guys think my rights are on the 14 days Distant Selling Regulations and John Lewis's refusal because I opened it and used it for 8 minutes tops before putting it back in the box.

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I'd just like to add that I'm very disappointed in Dyson here, they are being very close to what I call misselling with what they are claiming in an increased brush speed and battery life being so close together in their sales pitch but not actually being linked in performance.

I'm also disappointed in John Lewis too.

If I'm being a pedantic moaner please tell me, just feel ripped off. I don't need the cash but it's the principle.

Just to add that I have contacted my card company AMEX and they are helping out, would like to know if I'm in the right or wrong regarding the DSR if possible?

Thanks in adavnce

wealdroam

abmcell wrote: »

Hi folks

Would welcome some advice if possible.

Very short version - bought a Dyson v8 animal online through John Lewis online, paid via paypal. Received the item on Friday, charged it for 24 hours, used it Saturday and the battery power was very poor, put back in the box and tried to return today - in my possession 2 days. Went into their store today to try and return. They said because I had used it, I couldn't return it.

I asked about the Distant Selling Regulations and they said they didn't apply because it had been used.

---

Long Verison,

Needed a handheld vacuum and looked at the V6, but the Dyson V8 was £200 more and claimed to have 40 minutes battery time compared to 20 minutes on the v6, and it had 150% increased brush speed. What they don't tell you is that the 40 minutes is only if you now use the reduced speed setting.

Basically they haven't increased the battery power by 100% at all, they have just introduced a new slower setting than the V6. They market it disingenuously though because they put it next to the 150% increase in brush speed.

Anyway, when I used it the minimal speed was useless and the max speed only lasted 6 minutes.

John Lewis said it states this on their web page, but I've checked and got screen shots and no it doesn't. It says

Battery life Information 40mins - nothing about 6-7 minutes that she claimed it did. I have screen shots now.

I guess that stuff is for later if it goes to court, but what do you guys think my rights are on the 14 days Distant Selling Regulations and John Lewis's refusal because I opened it and used it for 8 minutes tops before putting it back in the box.

---

I'd just like to add that I'm very disappointed in Dyson here, they are being very close to what I call misselling with what they are claiming in an increased brush speed and battery life being so close together in their sales pitch but not actually being linked in performance.

I'm also disappointed in John Lewis too.

If I'm being a pedantic moaner please tell me, just feel ripped off. I don't need the cash but it's the principle.

Just to add that I have contacted my card company AMEX and they are helping out, would like to know if I'm in the right or wrong regarding the DSR if possible?

Thanks in adavnce

Are you saying the thing does not conform to contract or are you saying that it doesn't meet your expectations?

In the first case, it doesn't matter whether you have used it or not - the seller must refund you. It's the Consumer Rights Act that gives you this right.

In the second case, then you can cancel the order, but the amount of the refund can be reduced if your "handling is beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods if, in particular, it goes beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop".
It is The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations that applies, not Distant Selling Regulations.

JL shouldn't really be refusing an order cancellation.

I would pursue this with their online customer services.

meer53

It says "up to 40 mins" not "40 mins" it also says that the max power is "up to 7 mins" on their website. I think they've covered themselves really ?

abmcell

wealdroam wrote: »

Are you saying the thing does not conform to contract or are you saying that it doesn't meet your expectations?

In the first case, it doesn't matter whether you have used it or not - the seller must refund you. It's the Consumer Rights Act that gives you this right.

In the second case, then you can cancel the order, but the amount of the refund can be reduced if your "handling is beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods if, in particular, it goes beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop".
It is The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations that applies, not Distant Selling Regulations.

JL shouldn't really be refusing an order cancellation.

I would pursue this with their online customer services.

]

Thanks for your reply.

I guess it would be a bit of both to be honest. I'm not sure if it will let me post a link to the page but here it is if it does

johnlewis.com/dyson-v8-absolute-cordless-vacuum-cleaner/p2684022

I can't see anything in there that says it will only last 6-7 minutes. That being the case I guess it doesn't conform to contract as it says that time equals 40 minutes then gives a suction speed which equates to the max performance. Nowhere can I see does it say that you will only get 6-7 minutes if you use that brush speed.

On the other hand it certainly falls short of expectations.

Even if John Lewis offered a reduced refund I'd kind of understand and chalk it down to experience.

I went into store and afterwards spoke to someone on the phone from John Lewis to see if they agreed with the store, they said they couldn't overrule the store. It was weird because both agree with me about the product being less than perfectly described and that it shouldn't really be claiming what it is. Yet they didn't seem to give the distant Selling Regulations any attention whatsoever.

All I did to the product was take it out of the packaging, tested the battery life and put it straight back into the box. She didn't even look at the product to be honest, she saw the box was open and that fixed her point of view.

abmcell

meer53 wrote: »

It says "up to 40 mins" not "40 mins" it also says that the max power is "up to 7 mins" on their website. I think they've covered themselves really ?

Can I ask site are you looking at?

I bought through John Lewis and can't see it on their sales page, if I'm wrong them I'm wrong and I'll accept it.

John Lewis says on the stats

Battery life Information 40mins

johnlewis.com/dyson-v8-absolute-cordless-vacuum-cleaner/p2684022

On the description it does say up to 40 minutes, but I assumed that is to stop people being pedantic over 38 minutes etc.

To have just 6-7 minutes is why I think it is being disingenuous. You could technically claim up to 900 hours and have some really really reduced level that doesn't pick anything up. The power setting that relates to 40 minutes (if it lasts 40 minutes and I haven't tested it) is not fit for purpose in my opinion, it picks very little up.

If I was being totally open, I think it is a power setting that allows them to make certain claims about the products battery life, not for practical use.

Zandoni

I have a V6 and we only use it on the slow speed.

I'm sure that if you put the V8 on the slow speed, you'll still find that it does a brilliant job.

abmcell

Zandoni wrote: »

I have a V6 and we only use it on the slow speed.

I'm sure that if you put the V8 on the slow speed, you'll still find that it does a brilliant job.

I totally see where you are coming from. I think one of the things that I'd say is the the v6 is £200 cheaper. The way the v8 is sold is that it suggests / infers that the v8 is much much better, 100% increase in battery time and 150% increase in brush speed.

On the face of it, it sounds like a great improvement. In reality, you may as well just go out and get a v6 and save yourself £200 because you aren't getting 150% increase in speed for 40 minutes. I think the slower setting on the v8 is actually less than the setting on the v6 and this is where they get the extra battery time from. It sort of forces you to use the max setting on the v8.

Zandoni

Dyson clearly state on their we site that the V6 has a suction power of 100AW on max and 28AW on Normal.

I couldn't find the info on the V8, just the max of 115AW.

Maybe you're right.

meer53

abmcell wrote: »

Can I ask site are you looking at?

I bought through John Lewis and can't see it on their sales page, if I'm wrong them I'm wrong and I'll accept it.

John Lewis says on the stats

Battery life Information 40mins

johnlewis.com/dyson-v8-absolute-cordless-vacuum-cleaner/p2684022

On the description it does say up to 40 minutes, but I assumed that is to stop people being pedantic over 38 minutes etc.

To have just 6-7 minutes is why I think it is being disingenuous. You could technically claim up to 900 hours and have some really really reduced level that doesn't pick anything up. The power setting that relates to 40 minutes (if it lasts 40 minutes and I haven't tested it) is not fit for purpose in my opinion, it picks very little up.

If I was being totally open, I think it is a power setting that allows them to make certain claims about the products battery life, not for practical use.

http://www.dyson.co.uk/vacuum-cleaners/cordless/dyson-v8/dyson-v8-animal.aspx?&mkwid=sZ0NFLAxS_dc&pcrid=188783718469&pkw=dyson%20v8%20animal&pmt=e&gclid=CjwKCAjwofHHBRBSEiwASEp6LJYVUvf98ZRg3WWsNMRF4vw08SSDvmAAN8vJT_D2e3HAKh_9nwZIpxoC6N4QAvD_BwE


Look at the box that says "Max Power mode" it states "up to 7 mins"

abmcell

meer53 wrote: »

http://www.dyson.co.uk/vacuum-cleaners/cordless/dyson-v8/dyson-v8-animal.aspx?&mkwid=sZ0NFLAxS_dc&pcrid=188783718469&pkw=dyson%20v8%20animal&pmt=e&gclid=CjwKCAjwofHHBRBSEiwASEp6LJYVUvf98ZRg3WWsNMRF4vw08SSDvmAAN8vJT_D2e3HAKh_9nwZIpxoC6N4QAvD_BwE


Look at the box that says "Max Power mode" it states "up to 7 mins"

That it does, but I bought it through the John Lewis site and it states 40 minutes. I wasn't aware of that page when I bought it. I went off the stats from John Lewis.

I also wasn't aware of the performance difference between max and non max settings, in my opinion it's a little shocking on the v8.

I guess it's all subjective on what people would actually use it for. I'm probably not the best at giving product reviews.

I was just wondering if I had a sort of legal case for John Lewis to accept this back after I used it or if they were right to send me packing under the distance selling regulations?

Fosterdog

The V6 has the same feature, normal mode it will last "up to" 20 minutes but with the power boost it lasts "up to" 6 minutes so you won't really be better off with the v6 except that you have saved money but have a lower powered machine. I've not used a v8 but my parents have the v6 and normal mode is perfectly adequate for day to day use, power boost is very rarely used, I don't see why the v8 wouldn't be the same in that normal mode will be good enough with just occasionally needing the boost.