Common sense

neilsims

In October last year, Vehicle Control Services erected do not park here signs on Council lamp posts on what turns out to be land owned by what is now canal and river trust. Previously the land was thought to be public highway, hence the lamp posts.
The firm was told within an hour to remove them by the Council and then erected their own posts with their signs on.
The following day a uniformed official started giving out invoices that looked very like official parking fines. He said when challenged in front of witnesses to 'appeal to the firm and you will be let off. They always do'.
I received no notice on my vehicle.
2 months later I get a letter from the firm advising me that I owed them money. I told them I had not received a notice and they produced a photo with one on. They said they were not responsible once the notice had been put on my car and should have taken a photo 'just in case'.
I appealed to the so called independent parking appeals service who said the firm had told them that the firm are not responsible for anything their staff say to members of the public and that their uniformed official should not have told me what he did.
Surely employers have a duty of responsibility for the actions of their employees?
I have now received a letter threatening me with court action. Is there anything I can do?
Will an appeal to the land owner be worth a try?

System

Surely employers have a duty of responsibility for the actions of their employees?

Look up promissory estoppel. They may say the employee has no authority but a "reasonable person" faced with a uniformed employee can imply there are.

There is also a who body of law on "agents" for the company.

Anyway, if you call them they will tell you anything to get you to pay, won't they.

Are you sure this is not the highway? What is the location.

Were these "No stopping" signs?

neilsims

Hi
Thanks for the quick response.
It is private land. I did a land registry search.
There are no 'no stopping' signs.
I have appealed to Canal and River Trust who they are agents of.
Do you think they will take me to court or send a debt collector first?

Umkomaas

Do you think they will take me to court or send a debt collector first?

Do you mean someone to come knocking on your door? They only thing they will send are meaningless letters, which all can be ignored. There will be no one coming a-knocking! See NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #4 to explain all you need to know about how powerless and useless debt collectors are.

Will they do court? In every new thread everyone asks, it's becoming crazy. There's a lower than a 1% chance of court. VCS have become more litigious of late, but seem shy of putting anything in front of a judge where they are on thinner ice - maybe the confusion as to whose land this was (originally) may be enough for them not to bother. But who knows?

If they do serve court papers, help is available here and PePiPoo.

Fruitcake

The private parking industry is an unregulated scam. Common sense would have been for the UK government to realise this and prohibit the scammers from accessing keeper data from the DVLA, but the government makes millions of quids every year from this.

You reached the end of the appeal process after the initial appeal to the scammers. The IAS appeals system is an incestuous outfit run by the same people who run the IPC, and the same people who will act for the scammers if this went to court. It's a kangaroo court and every appeal result we have seen has breached the ADR Act 2015.

As above, debt collectors have no powers save to send you poor quality bog paper. If court papers do arrive, come back here for further help.

Meanwhile complain to your MP, Mrs May, and Andrew Jones MP, although they may be a little distracted for the next few months.

System

What is the location.

Can you show it on Google Street View

There are no 'no stopping' signs.

Is that what the offence is? Have a search for the PCM v Bull and private ticketing on roadways

neilsims

For some reason I cannot paste a copy of the image of one of their signs. A quick google of VCS signs shows a typical example of their sign.
The actual ones say blue badge holders are not exempt but the other wording is the same. The site is Thwaite lane in Leeds. Street view is old and does not show the signs. I have a signed statement from a witness stating that what the employee said is true. Is it worth sending a copy of this to VCS and also quote promissory estoppel and also that I have written to the land owner asking for their views on the handling of this case?
VCS want me to pay up and avoid a court case. How much are court fees if it does go that far?
Their sign says VCS Ltd. They do not exist. Vehicle Control Services Limited do.

Coupon-mad

For some reason I cannot paste a copy of the image of one of their signs.

Because you are a newbie - people get round this every day on here. Just break the URL link or change http to hxxp.

The site is Thwaite lane in Leeds. I have a signed statement from a witness stating that what the employee said is true. Is it worth sending a copy of this to VCS and also quote promissory estoppel and also that I have written to the land owner asking for their views on the handling of this case?

Yes, do that, make the appeal more like a robust 'put up or shut up' email (include your postal address of course).

VCS want me to pay up and avoid a court case. How much are court fees if it does go that far?

For £100 PCN, an extra £50 if you lost. But in a year since they started this, we have never lost a BW Legal case (VCS use BW Legal) where the defence was agreed with the forum here first.

neilsims

q=vcs+signs&rlz=1C1AVNE_enGB617GB618&espv=2&tbm=isch&imgil=bBfBsn2SYxSyIM%253A%253BjDfLnXSiA9Ex2M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fparking-prankster.blogspot.com%25252F2015%25252F03%25252Fvehicle-control-systems-signage-at.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=bBfBsn2SYxSyIM%253A%252CjDfLnXSiA9Ex2M%252C_&usg=__h9WV1J8cHqTn3hnjNQ20nmoYIV0%3D&biw=1517&bih=654&ved=0ahUKEwiAksnmp7vTAhXHUlAKHZYBD4gQyjcIRQ&ei=OwD9WMCIOMelwQKWg7zACA#q=vcs+signs&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CXUlQSkkDgBgIjgGzffGtd06ff4hUnml6Pg1fcdGPlytNNk8aXgEgZhBG89ppPzNS60yxnycJndCtm85r389eWEbOioSCQbN98a13Tp9EeRJG_10EOi-AKhIJ_1iFSeaXo-DURBu3089Y7LogqEgl9x0Y-XK002RFkUfCt2xgUVioSCTxpeASBmEEbER3h9YglDXtZKhIJz2mk_1M1LrTIRUtQAc0g9ZyAqEgnGfJwmd0K2bxEILCPVlb2_1mioSCTmvfz15YRs6ERG6ISn1WebN&imgrc=ULflYo1IYG5Z8M:

Is it worth drafting a response and posting here and then emailing them it before they issue proceedings (if they do)?

Ralph-y

you need to host the picture at a hosting site ... like photobucket / tiny pic .......

then change the linl off the site from

http: ....photto.....

to

hxxp: ... phonto....


Oh and it the username you are using is your name them PM a moderator to change it .....

the parking skumdistry read thesr hallowed [pages

good luck

Ralph:cool:

neilsims

[IMG]hxxp://i65.tinypic.com/v6u0qu.jpg[/IMG]

There are no parked bays on the site relating to my case, but everything else is correct.