the snap general election thread

A_Medium_Size_Jock

ThinkingOutLoud wrote: »

By Holland do you mean the Netherlands?

I meant Holland, do you have a problem with that and if so perhaps you would be kind enough to share why?

The name Holland is also frequently used informally to refer to the whole of the country of the Netherlands. This usage is commonly accepted in other countries, and not entirely uncommon among the Dutch themselves, though some in the Netherlands and particularly in other regions of the country may find it undesirable[2] or misrepresentative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland

Fella

Quelle Surprize, Labour's "Fully Costed" manifesto turns out to be not costed at all, and in fact a pack of lies designed to bribe the foolish:

https://order-order.com/2017/07/16/mcdonnell-backtracks-on-labour-vow-to-write-off-student-debt/

Thrugelmir

Fella wrote: »

Quelle Surprize, Labour's "Fully Costed" manifesto turns out to be not costed at all, and in fact a pack of lies designed to bribe the foolish:

https://order-order.com/2017/07/16/mcdonnell-backtracks-on-labour-vow-to-write-off-student-debt/

One less policy for their next manifesto.

Fella

You have to love the biased garbage that is The Guardian. Their take:

"John McDonnell has rowed back slightly on Jeremy Corbyn’s pre-election suggestion that Labour could wipe out existing student debt, saying this was “an ambition” for the party in power but would not necessarily happen."

The Tories make any announcement REMOTELY as similar & it's a "Screaming U-Turn". They call this "Rowing back slightly" lol.

No wonder they sell about as many papers as our local rag gives away each week.

Thrugelmir

Fella wrote: »

You have to love the biased garbage that is The Guardian. Their take:

"John McDonnell has rowed back slightly on Jeremy Corbyn’s pre-election suggestion that Labour could wipe out existing student debt, saying this was “an ambition” for the party in power but would not necessarily happen."

The Tories make any announcement REMOTELY as similar & it's a "Screaming U-Turn". They call this "Rowing back slightly" lol.

No wonder they sell about as many papers as our local rag gives away each week.

The comments made on the Grenfell disaster do little for McDonnell 's image either.

ThinkingOutLoud_2

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

I meant Holland, do you have a problem with that and if so perhaps you would be kind enough to share why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland

Yes, as noted in even Wiki - it is a bit like calling a Scot English - they are used to it - but most are not in favour of the inaccuracy.

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The comments made on the Grenfell disaster do little for McDonnell 's image either.

I agree that the use of the term "murder" is unhelpful and misleading.,

But I suspect he is only saying what a lot of people are thinking. That politicians in power (including Labour ones) made choices in allocating funding, property managers, regulators and contractors made choices in the buildings. Of course nobody expected anyone to die as a result of them and its possible that there were other factors involved.

However, I fully expect the usual whitewash, delays and obfuscation (as with Hillsborough), the blaming of processes and vague conclusions that no individuals were to blame only systems. I hope to be proved wrong.

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

However, I fully expect the usual whitewash, delays and obfuscation (as with Hillsborough), the blaming of processes and vague conclusions that no individuals were to blame only systems. I hope to be proved wrong.

We are all only human. Split second decisions. Live with us all forever. There'll be plenty of people questioning what they did, over and over again. Which they did in good faith and intent. No one set out to put anybody's life at risk.

ThinkingOutLoud_2

Thrugelmir wrote: »

We are all only human. Split second decisions. Live with us all forever. There'll be plenty of people questioning what they did, over and over again. Which they did in good faith and intent. No one set out to put anybody's life at risk.

I agree with this.

However, if there is evidence of culpability in law then I fail to see how a rushed witch hunt is what is needed your implication Bobq. That proper justice takes time is simply true and the rapid focus is on learning fast what must be done to safeguard others seems a much better focus for speed.

As to when and where this kind of unsuitable cladding began to be used - perhaps that was further back than Grenfell ... and perhaps the focus was too much on insulation only and other aspects were forgotten. Or maybe it is something else or a combination of issues - we don't truly yet know.

To know for sure - we should watch/ follow due process and not call people murderers because we can gain distasteful political capital.

paparossco

ThinkingOutLoud wrote: »

Yes, as noted in even Wiki - it is a bit like calling a Scot English - they are used to it - but most are not in favour of the inaccuracy.

'English' and 'British' is used interchangeably by some aspects of the media. A piece in the 'i' a while back said that Agincourt was a British victory (rather than English and Welsh) yet Waterloo was an English one.