South West Trains - Penalty Fare inspectors

Voyager2002

The way round this problem: find someone in uniform (if you can!) and ask their permission to pay at the first reasonable opportunity. You then have "authority to travel" and can pay the guard on the train, or the ticket collector when you arrive.

tubechallenger

Altarf, it's both.

The memo is true - but had he paid for his ticket before his journey there would have been no need for the article to be written. See my point?

I'll repeat, I am not a SWT plant. I just see through the 'sense' that people choose to believe.

Dylanwing

So how early are people supposed to arrive in advance of travelling? Or does every trip have to be meticulously planned like a military operation? If the Rail Companies are going to be so harsh in enforcement, surely they must make reasonable provision to sell tickets? Nobody approves of fare dodging, but there has to be an element of common sense, and above all, fairness.
Scary really, but the new Companies actually make the old BR seem pretty good! Bring back the Westerns and Deltics!:j

Iamthesmartestmanalive

Dylanwing wrote: »

So how early are people supposed to arrive in advance of travelling? Or does every trip have to be meticulously planned like a military operation? If the Rail Companies are going to be so harsh in enforcement, surely they must make reasonable provision to sell tickets? Nobody approves of fare dodging, but there has to be an element of common sense, and above all, fairness.
Scary really, but the new Companies actually make the old BR seem pretty good! Bring back the Westerns and Deltics!:j

I havent found the companies harsh

If you travel in our region you can buy before you travel

1) Online
2)From the office at peak times
3) the ticket machine

Once you board

1) Off the conductor

Or after you exit

1) from staff at the barrier or on the platform

Penalties dont apply unless you are caught lying to lower the fare or if you try and leave without paying instead of being honest and approach the sellers


I mean its common fare jumping and the OP has nothing to excuse him for it IMO and even if his post is true it wont work as im sure thats what every fare jumper says too

Dylanwing

I think you must be lucky. At my local station we have just 1 ticket machine that is slow, and hard to read the screen if sunny, and at peak times, about 10 people queueing (About 2 mins minimum per ticket - Do the Maths!). Despite this, get on a train without a ticket, and you get a fine. I have never been to a Country where train travel and ticketing is made so complicated, and remember, this is supposedly a mass transit Public Transport system, a green alternative to our cars.
Mind you, I think that the actual Government provision of effective Public Transport is in some way linked to an incidence of porcine aviation!

LCFC_Foxile

Thanks Dylanwing - I thought it was only me for a while!

The other thing I've noticed is that the the guards of SWT trains no longer announce over the train PA system that "...if anybody does not have a ticket, please find me in the (whichever) carriage of this train", & is replaced by an automated "...you must buy a ticket before you board this train."

In reply to C_Ronaldo, I was dropped off by car in Staines, so a ticket there was not required. And there was a chance that I may have been able to get a lift for the return-journey (which didn't materialise), hence the reason why I did not buy my ticket for the return-journey to Datchet by train, in advance.

For all the suggestions of finding the guard to have an 'authority to travel', at the rate things are going, I see nothing to stop SWT in the near-future saying that even this 'authority' or a ticket cannot be purchased from them.

The only thing I can suggest to SWT is that the permit machines are put back at stations; at least then, it gives everyone a fighting chance under any circumstance.

Iamthesmartestmanalive

Mistryman wrote: »

Thanks Dylanwing - I thought it was only me for a while!

The other thing I've noticed is that the the guards of SWT trains no longer announce over the train PA system that "...if anybody does not have a ticket, please find me in the (whichever) carriage of this train", & is replaced by an automated "...you must buy a ticket before you board this train."

In reply to C_Ronaldo, I was dropped off by car in Staines, so a ticket there was not required. And there was a chance that I may have been able to get a lift for the return-journey (which didn't materialise), hence the reason why I did not buy my ticket for the return-journey to Datchet by train, in advance.

For all the suggestions of finding the guard to have an 'authority to travel', at the rate things are going, I see nothing to stop SWT in the near-future saying that even this 'authority' or a ticket can be purchased from them.

The only thing I can suggest to SWT is that the permit machines are put back at stations; at least then, it gives everyone a fighting chance under any circumstance.

You had more than a fighting chance

If your journey was that vital you should have arrived far earlier

Dylanwing

Yep, arrive 30 minutes before train is due, far better for Directors and Shareholders than providing adequate ticket facilities!

caliston

A ticket machine is now taken to be sufficient, given new ticket machines sell a much wider range of tickets (but by no means all). The Department for Transport's Penalty Fares Policy makes no distinction between Permit to Travel and ticket machines in this respect. However it would be wise, if you can, to buy a ticket, even if it's not the correct one, and exchange it at the next opportunity - see the Retail Manual's instructions for this in the case of season tickets and travelcards (the rest of that thread is also worth reading).

In the OP's case I'd recommend writing to SWT's Customer Services, enclosing copies of the documentation and as much evidence as you can (for example, a statement from the friend that dropped you off stating the time). I'd cite the DfT's guidelines - this bit is particularly important:

4.12: ...However, we expect operators to provide enough ticket windows, ticket machines and staff at staffed stations to meet the queuing standards set out in the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement and their Passenger's Charter under normal circumstances. This standard is normally five minutes at peak times and three minutes at other times. If queues at a particular station regularly fail to meet these standards at certain times or days of the week, the operator must either take action to sort out the problem before a penalty fares scheme is introduced or make sure that passengers are not charged penalty fares when these queuing standards are not met. This might include providing extra staff or ticket machines. A penalty fares scheme must include arrangements for telling authorised collectors when long queues build up at ticket offices (see paragraph 4.33).

4.33: ...Authorised collectors also need to know when long queues build up at a ticket office so that they can use their discretion towards passengers travelling from that station. This is usually done by giving each authorised collector a mobile phone and a pager to keep them in contact with a central control centre. Arrangements must be made for station staff to contact the control centre if a ticket office closes early or if long queues build up, and to advise the control centre of any ticket or 'permit to travel' machines that are not working. Operators must explain how 'permit to travel' and ticket machines at unstaffed stations will be monitored.

So SWT might have a record of a problem on that particular day that they can examine.

LCFC_Foxile

Hi caliston,

Thanks for this - it really sheds some light on the whole situation.

I should add I was dropped off in Staines in the first place, & needed to make my way back to Datchet by train, when the encounter with the ticket-checker occurred at Datchet.

So, as such, there are no 'witnesses'; only the people who were also in the queue with me (whose details I don't unfortunately have), & as you say, Staines station's account of the situation.

Whether SWT regard the queues when I was at Staines station as a 'problem' of their doing, is of course, another matter...

Cheers...