South West Trains - Penalty Fare inspectors

LCFC_Foxile

Hi fellow Moneysavers,

Just a mention about the above - it appears they are really clamping down on people not buying a ticket.

I got on a train at Staines yesterday evening, & was unable to buy a ticket due to the queues at the ticket machine & at the manned-window. I must have been there around 7 to 8 minutes in total, & was still behind 2 people at the manned-window, when the Windsor-bound train arrived.

Since I had no change, I also could not use a permit machine - not that I spotted one there anyway.

As some of you will know, the trains on this line run every 30 minutes, so I had a choice between getting on a train without a ticket, or arriving 30 minutes later than scheduled to pick up my son from my friends who were looking after him. Unfortunately, they could not look after him longer that day as they heading off for another engagement that evening.

I took the former option, & you can guess what happened. I got off at Datchet (my station), & there were ticket inspectors all over the place - probably around 10 in total, plus probably as many 'security staff'.

Being the honest sort, I mentioned that I had travelled from Staines, & as soon as I said that, the inspector I was speaking to interrupted me & said, "Staines is a manned-station & there is also a ticket machine - that will be a £20 penalty fare you need to pay."

My explanation of why I was unable to buy a ticket fell on deaf ears; it appears that genuine reasons for not buying a ticket do not wash at all, & whilst I can understand why they are doing this, it's frustrating for me since I have never boarded a train without a valid ticket before.

Of course, I was also told by the inspector that "(he) does not make the rules", & that "(I) had the right of appeal." But if they are clamping down that hard, I can't see any reason washing with anyone looking at the appeals either.

So in short, it appears you're better off waiting to buy a ticket, & run the risk of reaching your final destination late, rather than be gruffly-spoken to by an inspectors, have your reason fall on deaf ears & being charged a penalty-fare which is significantly higher than the fare you would have paid if you had waited.

Cheers,

Mistryman

FannyHill

The thing is there are so many people who travel without a ticket.I'd like to see more inspectors on trains and at barriers.How does the ticket inspector know that you don't travel everyday without a ticket? You may be genuine but he doesn't know that.


"I have never boarded a train without a valid ticket before".


Unfortunately they hear that from everyone caught without a ticket.

It is annoying, many years ago someone a friend of mine did it on the tube "Once" and was caught at Willesden Green and charged with rail fraud.She had a weekly ticket but it didn't cover that station.

tubechallenger

Hi there Mistryman

As much as I can see it is frustrating for you - SWT is really clamping down with their "buy before you board" policy that mysteriously came in just after the new franchise came in ... now not being a conspiracy theorist (no, not at all) I couldn't possibly say it's because it's they need all the money for their new franchise.

However - needless to say, they were correct to penalty fare you as you didn't have a valid ticket for travel. You do have the right of appeal however I sincerely doubt you will get anywhere with it - and will still be forced to pay the £20. Most of the RPIs I know normally aren't quite as harsh in certain cirumstances, but they correctly issued the ticket under condition 2 of the NCoC.

In the future if you cannot buy a ticket on the platform I recommend you try and reach the guard before the train departs - the guard can be found by the flashing light on the side of carriages when the train is in the station. All lights should be on - however one will be flashing. The guard is always found in the carriage which has the flashing light.

Tom

nollag2006

I've had a similar experience with SWT last year, and successfully pursued them through the Small Claims courts. They didn't respond to any of the court correspondence, so I had the pleasure of sending the bailiffs in !!

Very satisfying !

LCFC_Foxile

Thanks for your post fellow Moneysavers...in reply :

FannyHill - My trip was the first time I've had to travel from Staines to Datchet, although I have travelled between other stations & Datchet on the same line before, with a ticket each time. You're right, the inspectors probably do hear that excuse everyday; however, I can't help but feel that the blame has shifted too far over to the passenger.

After all, how many minutes in advance should you reach a station to buy a ticket; what is considered 'reasonable'? I spoke to SWT Customer Services about this, & the best they came up with was that "you could buy your ticket in advance." If your circumstances don't allow for this, & I would vouch that for at least 95% of short rail journeys by the UK population (not counting people with season tickets etc), then that theory doesn't work.

SWT Customer Services also mentioned that delays caused by any other train / tube network, resulting in a non-purchase of the ticket for the SWT-part of the journey, cannot be considered a valid reason, & would have also resulted in a penalty fare, which I found particularly astonishing.

tubechallenger - thanks for your suggestion regarding the guard. You do hear announcements (although not all the time) that you can find the guard & purchase a ticket from him - whether this continues when SWT find that it's more profitable to charge penalty fares than charge the actual fare, remains to be seen.

One thing I didn't mention was that the inspector also said "If we weren't inspecting tickets at this station, how would you have paid for your journey?". In my case, there's quite evidently no correct response is there?

There are obviously passengers who blatantly set out never to buy a ticket (otherwise, there wouldn't be a need to send inspectors out). However, I was hardly hiding in the toilets, or trying to run past the inspector, & I was more than happy to pay for the journey I had made, rather than be penalty charged.

Unfortunately, the inspectors choose to tar everybody with the same brush.

nollag2006 - thanks for your suggestion too. For some of these things sometimes, the effort you put in far outweighs what you get back, so I'll pass on that.

tubechallenger

Doh - I lost an entire post ...

Basically Mistryman, the guard can't issue penalty fares, and never will be able to - simple as.

in response to the question, answer that you arrived in ample time at Staines, you've been openly honest with them and that the queues were simply too big for you to obtain a ticket in time. If they ask why you didn't use a ticket machine - say you don't understand them and coudl they show you how to use one - therefore they are aiding you in buying a ticket next time and therefore doing their job.

The inspectors choose to tar everyone with the same brush for one reason, the SWT premium made payable in a big fat cheque to none other than HM Government.

AlanG_3

tubechallenger wrote: »

Doh - I lost an entire post ...

QUOTE Basically Mistryman, the guard can't issue penalty fares, and never will be able to - simple as. UNQUOTE


Thanks for info. But could you clarify. Are you saying passengers can purchase a ticket from the guard ,at normal prices just after boarding ?

How will the guard know where you got on, or will you have to approach him as you board?

Alan

tubechallenger

The "rules" are that if you purchase a ticket from the guard on board the train then officially they can only sell you the "standard day or open" tickets rather than "cheap day". However, in the majority of cases if you literally go and have a word just before boarding the train or while boarding the train I find most are quite open to sell you a cheap day ticket if it's busy or you look as if you are out of breath (having run for the train).

Tom

Altarf

That may have been the case previously, but it may not be now - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article1975236.ece

custardy

nollag2006 wrote: »

I've had a similar experience with SWT last year, and successfully pursued them through the Small Claims courts. They didn't respond to any of the court correspondence, so I had the pleasure of sending the bailiffs in !!

Very satisfying !

however you travelled without a ticket?

isasmurf

Mistryman wrote: »

After all, how many minutes in advance should you reach a station to buy a ticket; what is considered 'reasonable'? I spoke to SWT Customer Services about this, & the best they came up with was that "you could buy your ticket in advance."

SWT aim to serve you within 5 minutes peak and 3 minutes off-peak. It's in their Passenger Charter as required under the Penalty Fares Rules 2002.