Starbucks Rivington Services (Soutbound)

mgldev

Hi guys,

Probably one of thousands of threads like this - I hope I've not missed something in the sticky threads regarding posts like this, i.e.don't post threads like see, see X thread.

I've received this PCN notice: 188.166.149.212/parking-pcn-letter.png (sorry - links not allowed - c+p in to a new browser address bar)

I've used their online appeal form with the following template from this sticky thread: Again no links allowed - thread ID 4816822

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

I also included a bank statement screenshot of the lines showing the purchase from Starbucks on that day.

It's frustrating because I was helping a friend out providing mentoring on website development and neither of us noticed the signs about the maximum stay - clearly we would have dissapeared within 2 hours if we had.

Have I used the correct template? It's a a BPA ticket and I've used the BPA template - however the section regarding the threat of court bothers me as I've sent the appeal and since realised there is no threat of court in the PCN received.

I was torn between just paying the £60 and appealing because to be honest I think all the research, emailing and appealing will probably amount to more than £60 in terms of lost time to me but it's the principle of it that's drove me to appeal - I just think it's pretty scandalous - the value they're asking for (£100 / £60), the fact it's only 20 odd mins over and that neither of us noticed the signs.

Any help appreciated!

Thanks,
Mike

The_Deep

It will certainly take you some time to master this, but it is that or pay scammers, and you may learn quite a bit about contact law and, possibly, the Small Claims Court.

Coupon-mad

http://188.166.149.212/parking-pcn-letter.png

ParkingEye.

Complain to the Services. Google them to find the contact email and escalate the complaint.

mgldev

The_Deep wrote: »

It will certainly take you some time to master this, but it is that or pay scammers, and you may learn quite a bit about contact law and, possibly, the Small Claims Court.

Thanks The Deep.

I will use this as an opportunity to learn - there's a fair amount to read through and a lot of templates available based on certain variables, but I'll work it out. I'm willing to fight all the way to the last hurdle, even if that means in the end I have to pay up, but I'm hoping and feeling positive from the threads I've read thus far it won't come to that!

mgldev

Coupon-mad wrote: »

http://188.166.149.212/parking-pcn-letter.png

ParkingEye.

Complain to the Services. Google them to find the contact email and escalate the complaint.

Thanks Coupon-mad.

Would you suggest contacting the company operating the services as a whole or contacting Starbucks - the retailer I spent my time / money at? I've noticed in the thread 'Successful complaints about private parking tickets - how to get them cancelled!' a large collection of retailers / services and the appropriate contact details - many of which seem to be direct email addresses for store owners / managers - I'll do some Google'ing and research to see if I can obtain email addresses for either Rivinton Services as a whole / Starbucks.

Should I draft together my own personalised complaint or am I missing a recommended starter template? I've looked through the 'Successful complaints about private parking tickets - how to get them cancelled!' to look for a template however I've only managed to find a letter used by a previous (successful) appeal and I'm thinking I might write my own up using this as a reference:

Total Parking Solutions
Parking Control Department
PO Box 7135
Kettering
NN16 6BP

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: MT304XXXXX

On 30/8/13 I parked my vehicle KXXX XXX at Central Retail Park Wrexham.
When I returned to my vehicle I discovered a parking charge notice affixed to my vehicle.
The parking charge notice stated that I had left the sight whilst my vehicle remained on site.
I believe I am not in breach of this contravention for the following reasons.
The signage was not clear enough to show that you are not allowed to leave the site; the only clear restriction shown is the maximum stay was 2 hours
(I did in fact return to the site to Dunelm Mill after visiting my bank)

The fee is also disproportionate, According to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations – parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In my case it is free to park for 2 hours (which I did not exceed) so the charge of £90 you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner.

In light of the above it is clear that I am not liable for the parking charge and I request that the parking charge notice is cancelled accordingly.

Any advice on my thoughts, i.e. am I on the right path here?

Edit: The main item I'll be using from the letter above is regarding the disproportionate fee paragraph - clearly the initial paragraph is not suitable to my situation with my case being an ANPR PCN.

Thanks again.

Coupon-mad

Would you suggest contacting the company operating the services as a whole or contacting Starbucks - the retailer I spent my time / money at?

I would do both. I've seen Starbucks cancel - try their Facebook page, to make it a public complaint.

The main item I'll be using from the letter above is regarding the disproportionate fee paragraph

No it won't be, and nor will you write 'When I returned to my vehicle I discovered a parking charge notice affixed to my vehicle.'

Why are you not simply using the template appeal in the NEWBIES thread which doesn't use out of date points about 'disproportionate charge' (from 2013! - pre Beavis case!!!) and doesn't shoot several toes off by talking about who parked the vehicle?!

mgldev

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I would do both. I've seen Starbucks cancel - try their Facebook page, to make it a public complaint.

No it won't be, and nor will you write 'When I returned to my vehicle I discovered a parking charge notice affixed to my vehicle.'

Why are you not simply using the template appeal in the NEWBIES thread which doesn't use out of date points about 'disproportionate charge' (from 2013! - pre Beavis case!!!) and doesn't shoot several toes off by talking about who parked the vehicle?!

Thanks Coupon-mad.

I imagine it must be a nightmare for you when newbies like myself come on-board and start misreferencing information or using incorrect templates, as I just did. I, and I'm sure many others, are thankful for the effort that's gone in to collating this information for users but I must say the sheer volume of information availablle is quite overwhelming and it's difficult to pick the right template out, so I appreciate your guidence on this.

Here's the path I've followed:

1. Visited the 'Newbies' sticky

2. Post #5 - Always complain to the landowner/retailer very quickly and assertively:

Look at the linked thread above - I have given typical contact emails in post #3 - for stores, and tips about who to moan at if it's not a shop on site. Also there's a template 'rant' of a complaint letter to give you the flavour of how angry a customer is entitled to be about this utter harassment, particularly if your only error was taking too long shopping!

3. Opened thread 'Successful complaints about private parking tickets - how to get them cancelled!'

4. Navigated to post #3, found:

EXAMPLE FROM ME, POSTING ON PEPIPOO FORUM AS SCHOOLRUNMUM.
HERE'S A COMPLAINT TEMPLATE BELOW FOR YOU TO AMEND TO SUIT:

5. Opened the post on 'pepipoo' forum from yourself to land on template:

''Dear {CEO of Welcome Break, look him up and use his name and email address!}

OFFICIAL COMPLAINT ABOUT PARKING EYE, AS AGENTS FOR WELCOME BREAK
I am forced to make an official complaint to you because the actions of your agent, Parking Eye, are upsetting, intimidatory and will drive away genuine Welcome Break customers in the long run. You can no doubt guess that we have received a letter purporting to mimic a 'parking ticket' from PE - and yet we knew nothing about any issues at the time when we stopped off at Welcome Break.

We had just been on a 12 hour flight to Heathrow, travelled through 2 different time zones and we were hungry and exhausted - so we decided to stop for a break before continuing on our way. We arrived at Membury services, bought petrol, adjusted the luggage in the car, parked up in the dark car park, bought some food to eat while we rested and then got some cash out for the tollbridge. It was late at night and the car park was pretty much empty so we really didn't cause any losses to you nor PE and, importantly, we saw no signs. I would suggest that they are unclear and/or not lit nor prominent enough to communicate any time limit.

But it was not such a welcome break after all because out of the blue we have now been sent a fake parking ticket by your agents for apparently 'overstaying' a hitherto unknown time limit, by what seems to be a matter of 40 minutes. We are now expected to have to explain our actions to a third party private company who we had no dealings with, no contract with, and who are demanding a lot of money from us - in my book that is totally unacceptable.

We are very upset and increasingly angry about this entire episode. After an enjoyable well-earned holiday, our stop-off at Welcome Break Services late at night has now left a nasty taste in the mouth. Our family is horrified that Welcome Break can allow such a notorious firm to harass customers on your behalf. Because PE sent their letter out unexpectedly, after the event, we do not have a receipt now because we paid cash and discarded the receipt as normal when buying food and drink on a tiring journey. We had no idea about any 2 hour limit - or indeed any possibility of getting a 'parking ticket' - until as the registered keeper of the car, I was suddenly sent a demand by your agents.

I have researched the matter and intend to escalate my challenge against Parking Eye to the independent stage (Parking on Private Land Appeals). However, I am giving Welcome Break the chance to quash the fake PCN once and for all because I feel you need to know that you and your agents are alienating genuine customers due to PE's zero-tolerance policy.

Well before renewing your contracts with Parking Eye when the time comes, might I just suggest you take time to read and digest the implications to other Retailers, Supermarkets & customers, and the picture painted of Parking Eye's aggressive business practices, as set out in the full court judgment for 'Parking Eye v Somerfield - Case No: A3/2011/0909'.

Notwithstanding what Parking Eye may well have to say on the matter, no doubt involving spin about their firm 'being members of the BPA Approved Operator Scheme' (in reality, merely trade body 'club membership' which enables them to buy registered keeper data and certainly does not 'regulate' their industry) I would also respectfully suggest that Welcome Break should research the company you are associating with - in truth, Parking Eye have a terrible online reputation and are now suing customers over minor 'infringements' without referral to their clients, like yourselves, who may still naively believe that their agenda is 'parking management'.

I would also suggest researching the current debacle unfolding over the past 4 months on the Aldi facebook page, which is currently littered with customer complaints about Parking Eye who are actually suing Supermarket customers for 'transgressions' just like my own situation. Welcome Break should consider themselves lucky that the most adverse publicity, now that Parking Eye have become so litigious that I believe well over a thousand people have received court papers in 2013, has so far focussed on other companies in the customer service/retail sector. It seems that so many clients, blinded by the idea of 'parking management for free' have fallen for the spiel of a dominant company whose agenda is profit alone. It is not 'parking management' to have ANPR cameras on site and yet no management of spaces, no attendants and no checks made of disabled bays, for example. It's pure profiteering by your agent, routinely 'farming' car parks with no consideration for individual customer needs and circumstances.

My view is that ostensibly free ANPR-led enforcement of parking spaces by a notorious and litigious third party firm using remote cameras at the entrance and exit, and a few unnoticeable signs, is completely incompatible with the customer service ethic of Welcome Break.

I would welcome your own view on this harassment and hope you see fit to ensure that PE cancel the 'ticket' forthwith. My research about this matter has revealed that you have cancelled some of these tickets for genuine customers recently which has helped to restore my faith a little, albeit tempered with frustration that Welcome Break are allowing such an aggressive agent to have free reign to intimidate customers for their own profit, at your (and your customers') own expense.

yours,


your name

Is this the template you suggest customising?

Thanks,
Mike

Coupon-mad

Yes that will do as a complaint to the Services and Starbucks (although make the Facebook complaint shorter and snappier to catch their attention!).

Have I used the correct template? It's a a BPA ticket and I've used the BPA template - however the section regarding the threat of court bothers me as I've sent the appeal and since realised there is no threat of court in the PCN received.

Yep that's fine - any PCN from ParkingEye IS a threat of court.

This cowboy *industry* really should be ashamed of what they do and how they make their dirty money from society.