Paying a debt owed in another country.

tommytomtom1983

Hi there,
(Not sure if this is the right place so apologies if not and please move to the correct place if need be)
Anyhow I'm a bit stuck here.
I need to make a payment to a German debt collection company, however they don't speak any English and before I pay I want to dispute it.

The basic story is...
-I joined a "website".
-I completed the cancellation request to stop recurring charges.
However 6 months later I noticed they had not cancelled my account and had been charging me every month.
-Having contacted the company they stated they sent an email with a "stay with us discount offer" and because I didn't respond they assumed I still wanted to remain a member and continue charging me.
-Anyhow I eventually found this email in my spam email folder.
- I disputed that it doesn't state in the T&Cs about extra emails required to cancel memeberships. Just to contact them requesting a cancellation. Which is what I did.
-Eventually they decided to refund 1 month of charges and confirmed my account was cancelled.
-Still unhappy I spoke to my CC company and they just refunded all the charges.Wehey.
-Two weeks later I received 3 emails stating that the website was unable to take payments.
-Another week later I received 3 emails from a debt collection company in Germany asking for over £450 euros and threatening legal action and more charges! (Acting on behalf of the original website)
-Now I'm panicking, I don't want to pay them because I believe I don't owe them. I requested a cancellation which they didn't do.
-But I don't want to incite any more charges so just thinking of paying them off. However because the debt collection company is in Germany they don't accept U.K bank transfers. (I've spoken to the actual payment processing people who the debt collectors use, they were nice and said just speak to the debt collectors to arrange another way of payment.
-PayPal is apparently another way to pay them.

Should I just pay? I wanted to seek legal advice but I'm agoraphobic so it's very difficult for me to do this. Plus by the time I actually got to see someone/make an appointment I would miss the payment deadline and incure more charges!

Can anyone help?
The debt collectors are/seem legit (they are called national inkasso) .national-inkasso.de

I was thinking of just paying them and then maybe trying to get some legal help?? Or would that not work because I've payed them?

Would really appreciate any advice.
Thankyou and sorry to be a pain!

Any advice would be much appreciated!

bris

Just ignore it and defend it in court.


Use google translate to send them an email saying you are disputing the charge and cancelled, an email can not take away this right and you will see them in court.


They wont take you to court.

tommytomtom1983

Hi Bris,
Thankyou for replying so quickly.
I have been tempted to do this because I doubt they would go to all this trouble when looking at the facts, I am clearly in the right.
But also...what if they did. Don't think I could handle the stress.
having researched about this specific debt collectors company and other people who have exeperienced similar problems it appears you have a 50/50 chance of escape.
Some people say that you should pay them as quickly as possible to avoid further charges and count your losses.
Some people say that if you don't pay it will effect your credit rating and they do have power (because of EU law) to start proceedings and can take you to court/send bailiffs etc.
And some people say it's all just scare tactics.

The most frustrating thing is if I had the power I would just let them take me to court because I know I'm in the right. I've even got an email from them acknowledging my cancellation request but offering me a better offer. Technically that is proof that I have abided by their T&Cs in asking to cancel which they have ignored and offered me a "stay with us discount". (The stay with us discount which you MUST respond to is not mentioned in the T&Cs)

So frustrating. But as much as I would love to see this in court, because of my condition (which seems to worsen every week) I literally have to ask someone for help. But having no friends or family (within 200miles anyway) I'm quite literally on my own.
Maybe my psych nurse (who comes to check on me twice a week) could help? Ha ha!
This is already effecting me though and it's only just begun. Because of the way my mind works my anxiety is currently in overdrive! I've lost 4lbs in 48hrs! Great if you are on a diet, but believe me, I need to put on weight!

Anyone know any free lawyers! :-(

pogofish

This should be on the Debt Board - as it appears to have nothing whatsoever to do with credit cards.

agrinnall

pogofish wrote: »

This should be on the Debt Board - as it appears to have nothing whatsoever to do with credit cards.

The original subscription and subsequent CPA were taken out on a credit card. Although the CC provider has issued a full refund and the debt is now being claimed by the originator I wonder whether S75 can play some part in the OP's defence of the claim.

tripled

Personally I would just ignore them. You completed the cancellation form, and from the sounds of it they have admitted they received it but didn't cancel, which presumably you have a copy of.

It would seem unlikely this would be pursued through the courts given the value of the claim vs the cost of going to court and then trying to enforce it internationally, notwithstanding the fact that they have acknowledged they received your cancellation instruction, which would weaken their hand. I assume you haven't used their services since the cancellation?

Don't use Google translate to write to them - it can make mistakes. If you feel the need to state your position, do it in English. They are equally capable of using Google translate, or they could have your letter professionally translated, that's their call and any mistakes in translation would be on them not you.

WillPS

If my reading of "website" is correct, this is pretty shady practice on the part of the operators. Seems to me like they're trying to use shame as a tactic for enforcing an unreasonable contract.

I too would be surprised if they took this to court, but you should definitely go if they do.

I would also be tempted to let other people who might be interested in this "website" what kind of business practices they adopt when it comes to cancellation...

IAmWales

Don't ignore it, you'll end up with an even bigger bill. These collectors can and do use the courts to enforce payment.

You need to get some assistance with German law. In the absence of an equivalent to MSE, an expat forum will be able to point you in the right direction.

National_Debtline

Hi

You could check whether you can access some free legal advice through the following organisations.

www.lawworks.org.uk

www.lawcentres.org.uk

James
@natdebtline

sourcrates

Ok,

Let's look at the facts here.

The DCA will not take legal action as they do not own the debt, so forget that.

The European debt collection process mirrors our own to a large extent, these companies can't be bothered chasing bad debts, so they employ "rent a thug" to do it for them.

They will get fed up after a while, you may find it gets passed around a few debt collectors, all wanting a free meal ticket.

The way to deal with them is to send a simple letter denying liability for any debt, in English, that's your mother tongue, it's not your fault they don't speak it.

That should suffice, then forget about it, if it went to court, which it won't, as they cannot base a contract on an email, you would have a full defence as you followed the correct cancellation procedure, and have done nothing wrong.

They are trying it on.

Why on earth would you concider paying them ???

Don't !!!

tommytomtom1983

Hi everyone,
Thankyou for all your replies and support.
To be honest I'm not embarrassed about the "website", yep it was an adult one but I'm only human! :-)
The thing I'm worried about mainly is my credit rating, can this effect it? Also my mental state,
Because of my condition (basically I'm agraphobic, bi polar, with severe anxiety problems wehey)! the slightest worry in my head just spirals and spirals and spirals!
I use to be a high flying banker with a great career until "the problems" started!
Anyhow, I know if I went to court id easily win.
Like I've said I followed the T&Cs and indeed I do have a copy of the email from them acknowledging that I wanted to cancel. (But instead they just gave me a better offer) (I've kept every correspondence since I joined the website in question)
So fact on fact. I asked to cancel and they didn't!
But the way my head works they will some how win and I'll end up with a CCJ as well as paying off even more money.
That's basically why I was thinking of just paying them. (Make it go away)!
I've read in some places you can negotiate with debt collectors? Just pay a lump some and they"ll be happy?
I've got until 17th April 2017 apparently before they start court proceedings apparently. (And more charges)!

I'll have a read of some of the websites you have offered and have a think!
Once again thank you for your thoughts and guides. I'll keep you posted. :-)

Ps. Apologies for posting on the wrong section!