Buying an old flat - what documentation to ask for?

ani*fan

Hi everyone

Me and OH have put in an offer, subject to survey, on a 100 year old flat. We're first time buyers and the property has clearly been neglected for some time. Therefore it will need lots of work done and not just cosmetic.

What I have gathered from this forum is that there is lots of information we should have access to in order to correctly assess the condition of the property.

One example is that a doorway has been made between the living room and kitchen, and that we need to know it there was planning permission in place. If not, and this hole is in a supporting wall, then we have a world of expensive problems I think.

It also had some work done a while ago for dry rot and the timber specialist has provided a guarantee for the repairs. We need to see that.

The electrics look very old and it might need rewiring. I'm not sure if there is anything we can find out about that.

We suspect it has many more problems but we're prepared to buy anyway as it's cheap and we love it and are happy to get repairs done.

Can anyone tell me what other things I should be asking about? Our conveyancer appears to be trying to push the sale through without even a structural survey but we have insisted on that and the sellers are now aware we want access for that. I am not sure how much of this the conveyancer should be informing us of, or if it is completely outside his remit. I have contacted a reputable local surveyor and he is ready to do the survey if we get to that stage.

Any help at all you could offer would be great. I am very much a novice with not much help from the conveyancer.

Thanks in advance.

elverson

Is your conveyancer independent or did the estate agent recommend them to you?

For planning permission use the application search on the local council website, although for older applications the documents aren't always all there.

Mrs36

Where did you find your conveyancer? Is it too late to change?

I'm not sure why they are rushing it through, but they work for you so remind them of that. You need to be completely satisfied with what you are buying so you'll need to make sure you get your searches done, and the survey that you've already mentioned. If the electrics are a concern then maybe think about asking an electrician to have a look at the electrics and give you a quote.

Your conveyancer should request a contract pack from the sellers solicitors which should have any receipts/documents/guarantees etc. It will also include property information form and fixtures and fittings form, make sure you read these and ask for anything that is missing.

Surrey_EA

ani*fan wrote: »

Hi everyone

Me and OH have put in an offer, subject to survey, on a 100 year old flat. We're first time buyers and the property has clearly been neglected for some time. Therefore it will need lots of work done and not just cosmetic.

What I have gathered from this forum is that there is lots of information we should have access to in order to correctly assess the condition of the property.

One example is that a doorway has been made between the living room and kitchen, and that we need to know it there was planning permission in place. If not, and this hole is in a supporting wall, then we have a world of expensive problems I think.
I would think it unlikely that planning permission would be required, however building regulations approval may have been necessary, and perhaps permission from the freeholders of the building (assuming the property is leasehold)

It also had some work done a while ago for dry rot and the timber specialist has provided a guarantee for the repairs. We need to see that. This is something your solicitor should be obtaining from the seller's solicitor, and providing to you.

The electrics look very old and it might need rewiring. I'm not sure if there is anything we can find out about that. May be worth getting a specilaist electrical test.
However, be prepared to be told that it's not up to current standard - properties built 2 years ago are probably not up to current standard. You need to find out how urgent any work is.

We suspect it has many more problems but we're prepared to buy anyway as it's cheap and we love it and are happy to get repairs done.

Can anyone tell me what other things I should be asking about? Our conveyancer appears to be trying to push the sale through without even a structural survey but we have insisted on that and the sellers are now aware we want access for that. I am not sure how much of this the conveyancer should be informing us of, or if it is completely outside his remit. I have contacted a reputable local surveyor and he is ready to do the survey if we get to that stage. How did you select your conveyancer? If you are not confident they are going to be acting in your best interests it may be worth appointing someone else.


Any help at all you could offer would be great. I am very much a novice with not much help from the conveyancer.

Thanks in advance.

Has your offer been accepted yet?

cloo

Is it leasehold? If you're not sure, find out, and if it is, make sure you find out exactly how long is on the lease. If it has been neglected and is leasehold there's a strong chance there's under 70 years on the lease and that could a) be why it's so cheap and b) mean you can't get a mortgage on it.

bouicca21

Second getting a look at the lease. You need to know how long it is, what the ground rent is and whether there are built in increases, any conditions like no pets that you might not like, who pays the building insurance, who is responsible for repairs. And of course you need to know how it is managed.

G_M

Your conveyancer will deal with the legalities.

Your surveyor will advise on the condition.

your electrician will advise on the electrics.

Your GasSafe enginer will advise on the gass supply/installations (if any).

Other areas may need to be look at by other relevant professionals.

However, since you say it's 100 years old, and 'neglected for some time', I would save your money where you can and simply assume the worst.

Budget for rewiring, new plumbing and boiler, and have a large contingency fund for roof and internal repairs.

Since it's has " been neglected for some time" the chances are that there were no Building Regs for the doorway, (Planning Permission not required) but this can be checked with the council. If in doubt, ask the surveyor to look specifically at this (and any other particular areas of concern).

The wood guarantees may be a good indication of past work (how recent?), but will only be valid if
a) they are transferable and
b) the company is still in business, or it is insurance-backed.

But the best thing you can do is get two books from the library (free). one on:

* house buying (to explain the process in detail and answer all 231 quesions which you will otherwise be posting here, and

* house renovation.

ani*fan

Many thanks to everyone who has replied. Your thoughts are much appreciated.

I'm in Scotland so we don't have leasehold and freehold up here. Everything is essentially freehold although we sometimes have factoring fees but this flat does not. So we would own the flat outright.

Our offer has been rejected. This is typical given the asking price was 'fixed price' therefore not open to negotiaton, instead of 'offers over' which is negotiable. We thought it was absolutely worth the fixed price but our conveyancer thought it was worth testing the water to see if they were prepared to go lower. They are not. We have offered the fixed price subject to survey and are waiting for confirmation.

elverson - the conveyancer is linked to our current leasing agent and recommended by them. We are also using the company's financial adviser to help with the mortgage. The mortgage adviser was excellent but we're still not sure about the conveyancer. It looks like building regulations are where we need to look for info about the doorway. We may need to find out about planning permission for the dodgy old porch/conservatory that has been added to the back. We have also been advised that these things went missing during the shift to digital info storing. God knows what needs to happen about that.

Mrs36 - I think, as G_M says later, that we need to go in assuming the worst. There will be no info about fixtures and fittings as they all need ripped out. They are very old and in poor repair. We are looking up an electrician to test the wiring now. We will get the gas fittings tested too as it will likely need a new boiler and radiators and everything that goes with that. I'll ask our conveyancer if he has the pack and see if we can get any more info.

Surrey_EA - the urgency of the work is a concern so we're going to find out about that.

G_M - We have advised our surveyor about the hole in the wall so he knows we're concerned and will check it. We're sourcing an electrician now. Gas checks to follow.

Remarkably, the roof is in very good condition and has clearly been sorted recently, our surveyor will check.

I think my question has been answered here. Basically, this is a much larger job than we first thought and needs some thinking about rather than running after a romantic notion about how much we love the flat and how much we can make it our own. Clearly sorting it out will be a full time job.

Thanks everyone.

AdrianC

ani*fan wrote: »

One example is that a doorway has been made between the living room and kitchen, and that we need to know it there was planning permission in place. If not, and this hole is in a supporting wall, then we have a world of expensive problems I think.

Not PP. Freeholder's consent (or whatever the Scottish equivalent is), and possibly building regs.

It also had some work done a while ago for dry rot and the timber specialist has provided a guarantee for the repairs. We need to see that.

Don't hold your breath on it being worth the paper it's written on, though.

The electrics look very old and it might need rewiring. I'm not sure if there is anything we can find out about that.

If you want to spend money on an electrical check, goferit. It'll tell you the electrics look very old and it needs rewiring. And, since you're going to be refurbishing the place, you'll be rewiring anyway before decorating, right?

We suspect it has many more problems but we're prepared to buy anyway as it's cheap and we love it and are happy to get repairs done.

Can anyone tell me what other things I should be asking about? Our conveyancer appears to be trying to push the sale through without even a structural survey but we have insisted on that

<shrug>
In the rest of the country, the structure would be the freeholder's problem - and you know the rest needs work. I'd keep that in the contingency pot. In Scotland, do you not have the survey as part of the vendor's package?

davidmcn

ani*fan wrote: »

It looks like building regulations are where we need to look for info about the doorway. We may need to find out about planning permission for the dodgy old porch/conservatory that has been added to the back.

How old are either of these alterations? If ancient (i.e. over 20 years) then not worth worrying about, and that's what the standard missive clauses (if you're using those) say. But might be difficult to tell. If the "dodgy old porch/conservatory" is something you're planning to remove (or is about to fall down) then hardly a concern that the planners might ask you to do so! (extremely unlikely that they would though).

AdrianC wrote: »

Freeholder's consent (or whatever the Scottish equivalent is)

No such nonsense as freehold/leasehold to worry about here.

ani*fan

AdrianC wrote: »

Don't hold your breath on it being worth the paper it's written on, though.

We have been given the same advice from our surveyor, that these guarantees are worthless, so we're going to get a timber specialist in to look.

And, since you're going to be refurbishing the place, you'll be rewiring anyway before decorating, right?

Yes, it'll get done before anything else and definitely before we move in.

In Scotland, do you not have the survey as part of the vendor's package?

Yes you do, you get a 'home buyers report' which says the building exists and if you're lucky, a couple of hints about where there might be problems. I think the detail in them can vary significantly so it's always recommended you get your own survey done too, especially on an old building.

Thanks for all of this.