Rental deposit return

bonnand

Hello,

I was on a few weeks ago after we had moved to a new property and needed to move out quickly due to my job requirements. I received some good advice and after speaking to the landlords agent, it was ageeed that he would relist the property and we could look for something suitable.

Long story short, new tenants were found within 2 days, we moved out on the 31st March and the new tenenats moved in the next day. I asked the landlords agent when we would get the deposit back and was advised 7 - 10 days. Today I decided to check all was okay and sent an email requesting an update and received the following reply:

"Hi,

I have been speaking to the landlord and he has said that you entered in to a 6 month tenancy, and you where only in the property for just over 3 weeks and as a result he will not be returning your deposit.

He has said he has been good enough to just let you move out and he could of asked for you to pay a further 5 months rent."

I am at a loss how to proceed, when we started talking to the landlord there wa no mention of not return the deposit. I have replied and stated that new tenants are in and the deposit is in a protection scheme (I hope).

Any advice out there please?

dimbo61

Contact the deposit people or speak to cab

saajan_12

Since you couldn't have given valid notice during a fixed term and 3 weeks is too short for any LL notice, I take it you agreed a mutual surrender. This is an override of the original tenancy and both parties are able to agree any terms such as move out date, rent payable, deposit return, re advertising fees (esp if tenant wants to leave early), moving costs (esp if LL wants to terminate early etc. As such, everything has to be agreed so what was agreed?

I'm sure you'll understand the LL bargained for atleast 6 months of continuous rent, and now faces the hassle and cost of an extra set of advertising, referencing, contract, inventory etc. Agents often charge 0.5-1 months rent for this which may have wiped out any income from your 3 weeks rent, so it is fair they get more than just the rent for the time you stayed.

bonnand

Hi,

Many thanks for the replies.

Not too sure I have explained properly.

I contacted the LL agent after 3 weeks to advise we needed to move out due to my work as I am a sales rep. The agent came to see us and we discussed the situation and he agreed to relist the property and WE would pay the fees for the listing. At this point and in the period after this meeting, there was no mention of holding back the deposit which if he had done, we would have agreed a longer period to stay as would have been possible.

We moved out on the 31st March, the new tenants moved in on the 1st April. So I cannot see how the landlord has lost out. We lived in the property from the 3rd March to the 31st March or 4 weeks. I also payed a full months rent of £670.00, I don't think it costs that much to print off an agreement and sign it, do you?

I have also requested which scheme the deposit was held in. Agent advises that LL has 30 days to this and has not registered it, out new LL did it in 3 days!!! However, after our initial meeting with the agent to discuss the early end of the tenancy he told me "I will have to get the deposit out of the DPS scheme".

So I understand the LL side but where has it inconvenienced him?? He has not lost any money, the property was clean and ready to move into so there were no costs incurred there.

I don't mind paying to cover some costs but when the LL has NOT lost any money, I cannot see how this can be done.

Thanks for your help.

BJV

MMM I think your old LL is being harsh. If the property had not let or if there where additional advertising cost then ok. But as there has not been any financial lose there equally should be no financial gain. As it stands the old LL would have your deposit as well as the new rent from current tenants.

I would go and see CAB today.

Sorry forgot to ask did the managing agent put any of the informal agreement in writing? It should not make a massive difference but it is a l ot easier to prove if it is in writing.

Pixie5740

Legally, you were required to pay rent for the full 6 month term of your tenancy agreement. You wanted to end the tenancy early. The landlord was under no obligation to agree to an early surrender of the tenancy but he did. As you are the one who wanted to end the tenancy early the landlord can set pretty much any terms he likes for the early surrender. Just the same as the tenant can set the terms of an early surrender when it's the landlord who wants to end the tenancy early. It's not necessarily anything to do with losing out or inconvenience or how much it costs, it's that one party is in a much stronger negotiating position than the other.

If you and your landlord were sensible you would have put the terms for the early surrender in writing. Now it's all he-said-she-said. If you want your deposit back and it's registered with DPS then use their arbitration service but they could side with your landlord. Alternatively you can take the landlord to small claims court but who knows which way the judge will go.

So what if your landlord took longer than a previous landlord to register the deposit. It's not a race it just has to be done within 30 days of receiving it.

bonnand

It's not he-said-she-said.

After our meeting, I confirmed the discussion by email and the agent agreed with it all. If he had spoken up at the start and stated no deposit return and you have to complete the 6 months, I would have abided by that.

What I can't understand is that the LL has not lost any income, is not out of pocket for repairs because we cleaned the property from top to bottom and it was cleaner than when we moved in.

And it does matter what our current LL has done because we have to jump through hoops with regards to referenecing etc but the LL doesn't, why is that? We have been renting for over 10 years, in the UK and Australia and in all those times LL'S have registered the disposition within 7 days.

We have rights as well. We agreed to cover costs as was reasonable.

Thank you.

Stevie_Palimo

There are costs on new tenants though that you not thinking about and reference checks and so on did cost the LL money plus what ever fee's the agents charged him/her for the new tenants.

I think you will be very lucky if you get it back to be honest and would try as per suggestion above via the DPS.

Be interesting to see the outcome of this one though if you will post back once it is dealt with.

Pixie5740

bonnand wrote: »

It's not he-said-she-said.

After our meeting, I confirmed the discussion by email and the agent agreed with it all. If he had spoken up at the start and stated no deposit return and you have to complete the 6 months, I would have abided by that.

Well if you have the terms of the early surrender in writing then use that as evidence to get your deposit back either using DPS or MCOL.

bonnand wrote: »

What I can't understand is that the LL has not lost any income, is not out of pocket for repairs because we cleaned the property from top to bottom and it was cleaner than when we moved in.

I've already explained that to you. Early surrender is a negotiation it isn't directly related to costs.

bonnand wrote: »

And it does matter what our current LL has done because we have to jump through hoops with regards to referenecing etc but the LL doesn't, why is that?

No it really doesn't matter. The landlord just, as a minimum, has to comply with the law, that's it. Some landlords go over and above, some don't.

bonnand wrote: »

We have been renting for over 10 years, in the UK and Australia and in all those times LL'S have registered the disposition within 7 days.

What other landlords have done is irrelevant. In England & Wales landlords have 30 days to register the deposit, that's what's important not what other landlords may or may not have done.

bonnand wrote: »

We have rights as well. We agreed to cover costs as was reasonable.

Yes as a tenant you have rights. However, those rights don't include being able to end a fixed term tenancy early, that can only be done by negotiation. If the shoe were on the other foot and the landlord was trying to get you to leave after only 3 weeks you could have dictated the terms.

ben_harding10

Essentially, from what I have seen in the past with various stories regarding housing contracts (mostly in the student part), is that any arrangements you make regarding leaving the property early is at the landlord's discretion. This is because in the majority of cases there is a "get-out" style clause in your contract, which details the process you have to undertake in order to move out before the minimum term. This is however usually under normal circumstances, and for someone like you who had to move out for real reasons. It is usually then that discretion between you and the landlord (in this case via the agent) is used to work things out.

The best thing to do in these cases is to have something down in writing which gets signed by you and the agent/landlord. This legally binding contract stands firm in a court of law. Any arrangements made outside of this are dodgy on both parts as they are subject to change (as you have experienced with the landlord taking claim to the deposit). Here's where your side is fought- if it mentions that the deposit will be surrendered in the contract (instead of monthly payments of rent towards the minimum term) then that is something you agrees to. If not, then the deposit protection scheme (taken out by the agent-by law) may tell you that this move is not lawful as it doesn't stand as arrears given that new tenants were found.

Landlords often keep the deposit as ransom, or at least some of it (my last took £60 for light cleaning or dusting). You are able to settle these issues between yourself and the agent before any court action happens, but you need to open a case with the deposit protection scheme. You may want to threaten court action or deposit protection appeals- but often, this doesn't set up a good pre-court relationship between you and the agent.

Remember, the landlord is likely to lose out big time (i.e 3x the deposit) if you are found in favour of the appeal. So it is on their initiative to get it sorted before appeals/court.

Guest101

ben_harding10 wrote: »

Essentially, from what I have seen in the past with various stories regarding housing contracts (mostly in the student part), is that any arrangements you make regarding leaving the property early is at the landlord's discretion. This is because in the majority of cases there is a "get-out" style clause in your contract, which details the process you have to undertake in order to move out before the minimum term. This is however usually under normal circumstances, and for someone like you who had to move out for real reasons. It is usually then that discretion between you and the landlord (in this case via the agent) is used to work things out.

The best thing to do in these cases is to have something down in writing which gets signed by you and the agent/landlord. This legally binding contract stands firm in a court of law. Any arrangements made outside of this are dodgy on both parts as they are subject to change (as you have experienced with the landlord taking claim to the deposit). Here's where your side is fought- if it mentions that the deposit will be surrendered in the contract (instead of monthly payments of rent towards the minimum term) then that is something you agrees to. If not, then the deposit protection scheme (taken out by the agent-by law) may tell you that this move is not lawful as it doesn't stand as arrears given that new tenants were found.

Landlords often keep the deposit as ransom, or at least some of it (my last took £60 for light cleaning or dusting). You are able to settle these issues between yourself and the agent before any court action happens, but you need to open a case with the deposit protection scheme. You may want to threaten court action or deposit protection appeals- but often, this doesn't set up a good pre-court relationship between you and the agent.

Remember, the landlord is likely to lose out big time (i.e 3x the deposit) if you are found in favour of the appeal. So it is on their initiative to get it sorted before appeals/court.

On what basis? The deposit must be protected within 30 days, the tenant moved out after 21...