Unsure if I want a house now?

mark55man

OP I noticed you haven't come back into the discussion. And actually I dont blame you as the above comments don't really repay the effort that went into your OP.

In other threads, diligent saving, frugality, hard work are seen as virtues. Investment is seen as and is aspirational, and creating a living income stream that you can survive on is the foundation of good retirement planning

Are you a little extreme - well possibly, but holding those views now and holding them forever are very different things. You are obviously already considering if its something you might do, and maybe for now have come to the answer no!.

As a STEM person, I know how uninspiring some of the jobs are, but if you are near minimum wage and are bright enough for STEM you shouldnt have a problem changing that if you want to something different, without undue loss of salary.

The other thing, and forgive me if I am reading too much into your post, but there are plenty of social things you can do for very little money - could you consider doing a little more in that direction to add a bit of variety. I say that as I am jealous of your focus, so I have been in the OK, but borderline situation for 10 years - good net assets but rubbish cash flow - and the thing that gets me, even with my laxer approach, my supportive OH, and in an enjoyable job, is the grinding monotony of worrying about money. So what I am saying is give yourself a little bit of a break, but without going against who you really are

Planet_Switzerland

I graduated some years before you, but I quickly learned after uni that my STEM degree wasn't going to make my job search as easy as I thought it would. I was temping in jobs which could end any minute.


I'm doing alright in my career now and I'm on the property ladder. It took me years to take the plunge, though having to save a London sized deposit was a factor in that. I was however worried about taking on such a huge debt and being so reliant on my job to get it paid. For example, the monthly payments are more than I would earn a month in my first permanent job.


That said, what I did earn then is below what the minimum wage is now. I know that next years mortgage payments will be the same, if I was renting they would almost definitely go up. As long as I make the payments I can stay here as long as I want, when renting the landlord may decide they want the property back. If I was made redundant whilst renting, I wouldn't get JSA as I had over 16k in the bank, now I have less as anything I have over my rainy day fund goes to overpaying the mortgage.


So overall I would say owning a property is better, my savings may be much lower but I like to think the capital paid in my property plus the value its gone up by as savings too.

hounsehunterftb

You don't necessarily have to have or buy a horrible house and then pay mortgages for the rest of your life. If you think you have saved enough for your deposit, get excited. Do a thorough research and given the situation you have come from, be extremely "choosy" about the house that you buy. When you do a viewing, listen to your instinct or gut.

If it clicks you will know, then do a thorough research about the area prices, renovations required, maintenance of the house. If it all falls in to place as per your budget and the house in itself feels homely, just go for it! If its meant to be, it will happen.

If its not, you have nothing to complain about. You are happy anyway, where you are right now. Isn't it?

But its worth trying. Because 10/20 years down the line, you will regret if you didn't even try. But if you give it shot and it doesn't work out, you won't have regrets atleast

Resh

OP, I'm 50 years old and have just bought, with my partner, my first home. I've been a tenant for all of my adult life and have relished the freedom that brought me. I've been quite nomadic, and had a world of financial problems in my early adult life, and renting was the right thing to do. I've never been obsessed with getting on the housing ladder - in fact in the early 2000s I worked in the mortgage industry in the US and swore never to have a mortgage because I'd seen what it did to people when things went wrong. Back then I too had zero debt and no credit either and at the time it was the right thing to do.

My advice would be to stay the course. There is no need to rush into home ownership and no reason to do it ever if you aren't comfortable taking on that debt. It's really a very personal choice, but don't buy a house just because it's what we're 'supposed' to do.

Tygermoth

After i came out on uni i had horrible debt but i qualified, walked into a job and was making plans to pay it all back.

Then I sustained a brain injury in a hit and run. My recall and coordination was badly affected which meant i could not do my job.

I fought tooth a nail on NMW for the next several years to pay back what i owed. It got me so stressed it was unbearable. To the point that i would have panic attacks, get upset or stressed around money. My brother was staying and bought a PC for a grand - he didn't research it, didn't look at offers - i got so stressed i had to leave the shop while he put the money down on it!

I decided that i had a form of PTSD - i couldn't spend money, i couldn't think about money - it became the enemy. This thinking extended well beyond paying back what i owed. Even when we were stable making good money.

In the end it took time, and a system where my OH pays all the bills and sorts out all the pennies (but i have access and can see the spreadsheet where all incomings and outgoings are shown)

We bought a house last year - i gently obsess over each payment - i have calcs and a countdown - we have an over payment target - but its on my terns and I find that makes all the difference.

As people above have stated as you and your friends get older couch surfing gets to be harder and self care becomes an issue.

Having a home, in some fashion, be it a house share, flat, rental or a house on a mortgage - will help you focus on you.

sammyjammy

I'm not clear what advice you're looking for but you don't sound like a happy person. Do you have friends? Family? What do they think about your sofa surfing etc? DO you feel like you are taking advantage of peoples genrosity? I know I would.

You don't have to buy a house, you certainly don't have to buy one you hate. Some people crave the somewhat false security owning their own home gives them but it doesn't have to be right for you.

Maybe you should considering renting a flat or a room in a shared house as a starter for ten?

Good luck with whatever you decide and if you are happy just keep doing what your doing.

JP1978

You cant enjoy all that money while your 6 foot under and you [by the sounds of things] wont have any kids to pass it onto either.

Enjoy your life now while you are still young.

Buying a house/flat prudently is a good thing - consider buying a cheap doer uper - you are used to living in not the best of conditions - so over time, spend your spare time adding value to the house. This will get some equity in the house and so if worse comes to the worse, you sell it for a profit and in the mean time, you have somewhere you can call your own to live.

Ive been made redundant several times - or as a contractor the work stream has ended - total of ten times now but have only been out of work for weeks in total. I was actually made redundant two weeks ago and working my notice now but start a new role in 8 days.

Are we in debt? Yes, a little - £150k mortgage, HP on a car (that ends in 4 months and will be keeping the car) and a couple of hundred on a credit card, but we are providing a nice safe home for two kids and hopefully, when we pass on to the next life, be able to leave them the house so they can sell on and give them a help in life.

CharllieSays

"IMO a lot depends on a personal question you may not feel comfortable answering in public. Do you intend to have children?"

No. I've been a parent for my own parents, so I've lost that drive to start a family now. I need to parent myself and having children would be incredibly selfish.

"You sound a bit depressed to me and perhaps need to take a reality check on what you actually want from life! Grey hair will not stop you getting a boyfriend!! Buy a canal boat and live on a river."

I'm not depressed. Exhausted maybe and a bit raging, but I think that is the sole reason I have managed to get where I am. It's been a constant battle and you need to have a bit of 'rage' to keep fighting through all the problems life throws at you. Focused anger can be useful. I had two friends 'quit' in my 20s due to money problems and I'm not willing to do that. I'd rather keep fighting.

I have actually looked at canal boats. The closest one to work has a few that come on sale for around £30k, but the mooring fees and other things you have to pay don't make it such a great investment. If I ever see any super cheap ones with mooring discounts, etc then I may have another look. I'm not ruling it out.

"Save up enough money to buy a cheap house in a cheaper area for cash."

I have seen a couple of do-ups about 3 hours commute from here. It would be another 10+ years before I had enough to buy in cash (assuming prices don't rocket up), so it is an option I have thought about and continue to think about. I am fairly hands on and don't mind painting, DIY, etc. I'd be happy to buy a shell and build all the furniture and textiles from scratch.

"One advantage of investing in non property investments and not owning to live in one means you can be super mobile and live almost anywhere in the world or just travel around."

Exactly. I've had close to 15 jobs since highschool and had to move around the country and world to stay employed, so it's likely worked in my favour in that sense. Swapping flats was hard enough, so I imagine constantly selling ad buying a new house would be harder. At least, from what I've seen via family and colleagues it can take months or years (in a few cases).

"What about property as an investment to balance, although that tends to require a decent salary to leverage initially. does not have to be a home you can buy something that generates income(lodgers) and gives you a crash pad."

None of the banks I've asked so far were willing to lend me enough to buy a do-up flat, even if I wanted to. I occasionally check the figures and speak to people just to see what my options would be out of curiosity, and right now I wouldn't have much choice.

"I graduated in 2009 with a useless "arty" degree, but I'm doing fine. Large mortgage and a family. I don't wonder every second whether I am going to be made redundant. Quite the contrary - there is opportunity around every corner."

I'm happy you've had a better experience (genuinely, I'm not being sarcastic here). I haven't had much return for the work I've put in and I am still playing catch up with my career and finances. Maybe my luck will change dramatically in the next decade and I will feel very differently then. Who knows?

"You're playing with investments. Investments can go down as well as up. Some would say there is a degree of a gamble about it. For someone who make debt illegal (it's not just extreme, but actually a bit odd) - that's quite a paradox."

True, and I accept my view is pretty extreme. I also dislike the fact that I have to put my money at risk in order to prevent inflation eating away at it. I would much rather be able to save up and buy real value assets like a house and land to live on. However, fractional reserve banking and quantative easing have messed up the system and I'm not sure it can be repaired now.

"It sounds like you've gone from one extreme to the other. Neither is particularly healthy imo."

Yep, and I am aware of that on some level. If you spend years getting stung over and over again by wasps then you start to prepare to defend yourself against the next wasp that comes along. Your brain starts to view every wasp as a potential threat, even if some of them fly straight past and leave you alone. It's basic self defense mechanism. For me, the next recession and redundancy is just around the corner. It's difficult to let go of. I've only had relatively stable employment for the last two years, so perhaps after a few more my perspective will change. I don't know.

"Have you started a Help to Buy ISA. Shortly you take advantage of a LISA."

My colleague has pointed out LISAs to me recently and now that I don't have debt I will likely be using one to save. MSE has a list of some that opened recently and a cash LISA that opens in June that I am looking at. I think it's Shipton Building Society.

"OP I noticed you haven't come back into the discussion. And actually I dont blame you as the above comments don't really repay the effort that went into your OP."

It wasn't deliberate and I appreciate all of the responses I've had. I work long hours and don't always have access to the internet in my free time.

"In other threads, diligent saving, frugality, hard work are seen as virtues. Investment is seen as and is aspirational, and creating a living income stream that you can survive on is the foundation of good retirement planning."

That's what I've learned on here during my time (and other blogs I visit). I've known people lose money in their homes, but only lose money on investments when a) they are too focused on one company or group or b) sell at a loss when the market is down.

"Are you a little extreme - well possibly, but holding those views now and holding them forever are very different things. You are obviously already considering if its something you might do, and maybe for now have come to the answer no!."

Exactly. If I won the lottery and suddenly had housing, food, clothes and bills covered then my perspective would likely change overnight. I would no longer be reliant on a salary, so wouldn't have a reason to worry about redundancy. I could make free choices about things.

"As a STEM person, I know how uninspiring some of the jobs are, but if you are near minimum wage and are bright enough for STEM you shouldnt have a problem changing that if you want to something different, without undue loss of salary."

I am fairly lucky in that I don't mind my current job and find it fairly calming. I am far less tense at work than I am outside of it. It took me a long time to get into this field and it's a step up for me as the job is permanent, with benefits that I didn't have previously, and about £2k more than I was on before. After a year or so more experience then I will hopefully be able to increase that.

"The other thing, and forgive me if I am reading too much into your post, but there are plenty of social things you can do for very little money - could you consider doing a little more in that direction to add a bit of variety."

The people around me are all earning a LOT more money and are not willing to do cheaper things. That includes my family. I also don't have a car, so travelling outside my area to meet people is the main cost of socialising for me - even if I did something free like hiking with an outdoors group, I would first have to pay to travel to and from the area. Until I am on a higher wage, that cost of travel is quite a large fraction of my monthly savings. I agree with your general point though. If it bothered me more, then I would likely sacrifice that part of my savings in return for more of a social life.

"I say that as I am jealous of your focus"

Fear gives you razor sharp focus! haha

"I have been in the OK, but borderline situation for 10 years - good net assets but rubbish cash flow - and the thing that gets me, even with my laxer approach, my supportive OH, and in an enjoyable job, is the grinding monotony of worrying about money."

I am at my calmest when I am organising my finances and watching my assets grow. That is my potential light at the end of the tunnel and the one thing that gets me up in the morning. So I personally don't find that monotonous. If I stop and start to feel out of control over my money then I start to panic much more. I need to regularly check and see those figures increasing to get a sense of calm. It's the one thing I have some control over right now. I wouldn't enjoy having an accountant or anyone else manage my money.

"I'm doing alright in my career now and I'm on the property ladder. It took me years to take the plunge, though having to save a London sized deposit was a factor in that. I was however worried about taking on such a huge debt and being so reliant on my job to get it paid. For example, the monthly payments are more than I would earn a month in my first permanent job."

I'm glad to hear you are doing better now. I am curious to know what your plan would be if there was another big recession and you were out of work for a year or more? For several years I struggled to find ANY work, and even getting interviews for temporary or minimum wage roles was difficult. If I'd had a mortgage back then, then I would have lost the house without question. Do you have some sort of back up savings for that kind of situation?

"You don't necessarily have to have or buy a horrible house and then pay mortgages for the rest of your life. If you think you have saved enough for your deposit, get excited. Do a thorough research and given the situation you have come from, be extremely "choosy" about the house that you buy."

I think you maybe misunderstood. The people I know did not buy bad home in bad areas because they chose to. That's literallly all they could afford after years of saving (and with help from parents in most cases). They have 30 year mortgages (that hopefully won't go up) on the best thing they could buy. The rest of the available properties were too expensive. They try to spend as much time away from home as they can, as the area is pretty dodgy and the property is not a nice place to live in, but they believed that getting ANY property was better than nothing. I'm not sure I agree. I've lived in areas like that in the past and would not voluntarily put myself back into that situation again. Constant abuse, slashed tyres, crime, lack of sleep, 2+ hours commute and having to spend thousands on fixing various problems just doesn't seem worth it to me. I'm sure others would disagree, which is why people continue to buy houses in those areas.

"My advice would be to stay the course. There is no need to rush into home ownership and no reason to do it ever if you aren't comfortable taking on that debt. It's really a very personal choice, but don't buy a house just because it's what we're 'supposed' to do"

Thank you. That's good to hear! Enjoy your new home!

"I'm not clear what advice you're looking for but you don't sound like a happy person. Do you have friends? Family? What do they think about your sofa surfing etc? DO you feel like you are taking advantage of peoples genrosity? I know I would."

I was asking if any one else felt the same panic over getting into huge mortgage debt after finally getting back into the black. It wasn't neccessarily advice I was after, although any comments are interesting.

I have a couple of friends in a similar situation to me. I lost two to suicide (over debt) a few years ago. Another married a rich guy and moved away over night and no longer talks to anyone. My family are all mostly wealthy now (many are nearing or over the millionaire mark), but don't believe in sharing and have actually taken quite a bit of money from me over the years via guilt-tripping. They do not care what happens to me. I paid rent to my parents for a while when I moved back to the area and when I moved elsewhere my father's only concern was not being out of pocket himself just because I was broke. I doubt he would care if I was hit by a bus tomorrow, as long as he wasn't expected to pay for my funeral. I'm not close to them any more other than my brother and sister (who both married money - I'm genuinely pleased for them as I would never want them to go through the same thing).

My family are probably a bit unusual in terms of money. My parents viewed us as basically legalised slaves (although it took me many years to acknowledge it and stop making excuses for their behaviour). I don't rely on anyone else financially, if that's what you are asking. When I've slept on floors/sofas it was either squatting or in return for sex or some other work. I now pay for a small room in a shared house. I've never taken advantage of anyone. If anything, I have been taken advantage of financially by several people.

"Enjoy your life now while you are still young."

Enjoying life for me equates to not having to worry over whether I will be able to pay my debts. I get less enjoyment out of the things that likely make other people happy. I don't care much about nice clothes, fast cars, new gadgets, holidays, etc. I get a far greater sense of peace when I imagine having enough money to cover the essentials.

mark55man

Thank you for taking the time to consider and reply to most if not all of of all the comments made. You are clearly very integrated in your own position. It may not be a common view of life, but is just as valid if it works for you.

Have you ever thought of using your skills in cost and financial management as part of your job - procurement for example (maybe in a technical field) - I would hate to be up against you in a negotiation!!!!

All the best in whatever you choose, it sounds like your parents had a different but also unusual view and that wasnt fair or usual - but whether it left you in a good place or bad place is your call. My worry is that my own relative financial comfort, and willingness to support my kids will leave them vulnerable to overspending and being without the asset backing I have that could get difficult.

cashbackproblems

You are paying rent and getting nothing from it why wouldn't you pay a mortgage? especially if you have some savings as back up in case of redundancy etc. Plus the last few years in the markets have been booming and easy to make money out of, equities are at a all time high and we are due a correction.