larke v nugas

darcybrown

my aunt and her new husband made mutual irrevocable wills....they were 83 and 78 respectively when they made them.
My aunt went into a nursing home with dementia and died aug 2016 he died nov 2016
it then came to light he had made a new will, to which the probate office say the mutual irrevocable wills should override the new will
The only way he could have made a new will was by advising my aunt he was revoking his will but if she had dementia how could he do that, because if she knew she wouldn't agree..
His solicitors and new solicitor who drew up the will say otherwise, I keep asking for the will file and the value of the estate explaining that I am challenging the will etc...but they seem to be ignoring my requests ,,,How do I make them reply, do I need a larke v nugas letter, if so what do I need to say, do I head it larke v nugas and do I ask for all the relevant notes and why they think the new will is valid before I go ahead with a solicitor. I want them to take notice, how do I do this without a solicitor.
Thank you

Yorkshireman99

darcybrown wrote: »

my aunt and her new husband made mutual irrevocable wills....they were 83 and 78 respectively when they made them.
My aunt went into a nursing home with dementia and died aug 2016 he died nov 2016
it then came to light he had made a new will, to which the probate office say the mutual irrevocable wills should override the new will
The only way he could have made a new will was by advising my aunt he was revoking his will but if she had dementia how could he do that, because if she knew she wouldn't agree..
His solicitors and new solicitor who drew up the will say otherwise, I keep asking for the will file and the value of the estate explaining that I am challenging the will etc...but they seem to be ignoring my requests ,,,How do I make them reply, do I need a larke v nugas letter, if so what do I need to say, do I head it larke v nugas and do I ask for all the relevant notes and why they think the new will is valid before I go ahead with a solicitor. I want them to take notice, how do I do this without a solicitor.
Thank you

Time is crucial. On what grounds are you challenging the will? Have you seen it?

Keep_pedalling

I hope you have deep pockets. Mutual wills are a bit of an abomination, and should not be touched with a very long barge pole.

My understanding is that they only become irrevocable on the first death. He could have revoked by notifying her, but whether her mental infirmity could prevent that is not clear, and would probably involve a very expensive court case to resolve.

getmore4less

darcybrown wrote: »

my aunt and her new husband made mutual irrevocable wills....they were 83 and 78 respectively when they made them.
My aunt went into a nursing home with dementia and died aug 2016 he died nov 2016
it then came to light he had made a new will, to which the probate office say the mutual irrevocable wills should override the new will
The only way he could have made a new will was by advising my aunt he was revoking his will but if she had dementia how could he do that, because if she knew she wouldn't agree..
His solicitors and new solicitor who drew up the will say otherwise, I keep asking for the will file and the value of the estate explaining that I am challenging the will etc...but they seem to be ignoring my requests ,,,How do I make them reply, do I need a larke v nugas letter, if so what do I need to say, do I head it larke v nugas and do I ask for all the relevant notes and why they think the new will is valid before I go ahead with a solicitor. I want them to take notice, how do I do this without a solicitor.
Thank you

It must be up to the supporters of the new will to convince the courts the mutual wills are no longer valid.

who are the executors in these wills?

bit of a problem if the executors named in both are the same.

if the court support the mutual will the executors should put that to the court and get them to issue a grant based on that.

what have those that support the new will done to stop that happening?

FreeBear

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

I hope you have deep pockets.

I heard tail that it cost someone £1700 for a LvN statement - The OP would be best advised to seek the assistance of a solicitor well versed in contentious probate and with a proven track record. Time is of essence to challenge the validity of a will, and needs to be done before probate is granted - Entering a caveat could be used to delay the granting of probate.

darcybrown

Thank you for your reply sorry for the delay I have been doing my homework on it.
I have seen all 3 wills
The 2 that are mutual irrevocable and the new one, the probate office have said they don't understand how the mutual irrevocable will could be overturned.
But as the solicitor said it is like a game between solicitors, called bluff.
At present I have just received the larke v nugas statement on the latest will. All it does is tell lies about myself and my cousin, and that my auntie had dementia, so I don't think after reading it they will have a leg to stand on....but I will have to go to a solicitor about it.
Have been trying to do it myself as they charge \£200 plus per letter, but hey ho if I want to challenge it I will have to.
Any suggestions will be welcome
He died 9th November, so I have about 6 months which is 9th May, so I am passing it to a solicitor now.
Thanks

darcybrown

Thanks for your reply, I have eventually got the larke - v - nugas from them today, but will have to take it to a solicitor, its basically a story from the will maker full of lies, but how do you prove it all when both parties are dead.
However there is a glimmer of light, as it has been admitted that auntie had dementia, and that he knew he had an irrevocable mutual will, so we will see how we go.
Speaking to a probate office they did not understand how the wills could be overturned, but on speaking to a solicitor its just a game to them, they say you just have to go with it.
As you said you need deep pockets at £200 per letter. Now I have all the information, at least they wont have to chase it so it should be a bit cheaper.
Hey Ho
Any advice would be welcome
Thanks Darcy

darcybrown

Thank you for your reply.
It has taken me ages to get the statement file from them.
There is nothing in the file only lies, from him as to the reason he changed his will.
The executors are different.
It is being dealt with by the solicitors, and they have said they do not need probate, so I am having to rush to a solicitor now, even though I have put a caveat in place, if they don't need probate I cant stop it.
Basically from the probate office they say mutual wills irrevocable stand not the new will
but as the solicitor said, its a game.
So I am having to pay a solicitor £200 per letter, its a bit cheaper as I have done all the digging.
But hey ho
I think they think I will not go any further due to costs, but now they will have to contact the new executor once they get a letter from mine, and the costs will then start mounting on both sides.
So we will have to see.
Wish me luck
Any advice is most welcome
Thanks

darcybrown

Sorry for delay in replying
Thanks for your reply
In the Larke - v Nugas statement I received today, it said my Aunt had dementia, and a few lies about why he had changed his will
But nothing about Auntie signing to allow him to revoke it.
So I am keeping my fingers crossed and passing all the files to my solicitor.
As someone said deep pockets £200 per letter
However I have done most of the digging
Wish me luck
Any advice is welcome
Thanks

FreeBear

If you have entered a caveat (which is the correct tool to delay probate when disputing the validity of a will), you should make an appearance - This will stop probate from being granted until such time as you either withdraw the caveat, or the issues are resolved.

getmore4less

I still don't understand what you have to contest

The probate office have said they think the mutual will is valid so why has that not been put forward?

it is up to those that want to use the new will to caveat against the mutual will being accepted and them putting up a case.