MSE News: Pensions Minister: 'no straws to clutch to' for WASPI campaigners

hyubh

Money_saving_maniac wrote: »

This bloke is mad. How many people except government ministers, senior civil servants and other people at the top of the tree are going to get £250,000 in their pension pot? Is he demented?

Hmm, not very well paid people with a few decades in a public sector scheme would easily break that, assuming the current lifetime allowance multiple of 20 (which nowadays pretty strongly understates the value of a DB pension). E.g., a school support worker in the LGPS for 30 years with a salary of 22K that never changes much over the years beyond inflation - 22K x 1/49 x 30 x 20 = £269,388.

This isn't really a 'oh aren't public sector pensions so generous' point - if owning a house at retirement with a value of £250,000 isn't considered a big deal (and it certainly isn't in the south east at least), then having a pension pot that size shouldn't be either.

Paul_Herring

Money_saving_maniac wrote: »

This bloke is mad. How many people except government ministers, senior civil servants and other people at the top of the tree are going to get £250,000 in their pension pot? Is he demented?

I don't consider myself "at the top of the tree" and I'll have well over that by the time I'm 55, let alone 68 (SRA) if I decide to work past that.

AnotherJoe

Money_saving_maniac wrote: »

This bloke is mad. How many people except government ministers, senior civil servants and other people at the top of the tree are going to get £250,000 in their pension pot? Is he demented?

"Are" going to or "could"? More people than are dreamt of in your world, for the latter. .

Anyone that gives up smoking and saves the money into a pension for example. So,that is poetentially pretty much every single person you see outside an office or a pub entrance shivering in the cold imbibing on their cancer stick could easily accomplish that without drawing breath. ( see what I did there )

That's got to be several million for a start.

Paul_Herring

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Anyone that gives up smoking and saves the money into a pension for example. So,that is poetentially pretty much every single person you see outside an office or a pub entrance shivering in the cold imbibing on their cancer stick could easily accomplish that without drawing breath. ( see what I did there )

Yup. Dragging out the fallacious 'Ferrari argument' to have a pot-shot at smokers for no reason what so ever. (http://www.nairaland.com/1125948/where-ferrari#13285732 for those unaware of it.)

AnotherJoe

Nothing fallacious about the maths and plenty fallacious about the self-delusion going on there.

And I note that overheard conversation conveniently finishes just before "Lady" says "I dont have a Ferrari, because I chose to accumulate a $250k pension instead".

And whilst I unashamedly admit to taking a pot shot at smokers, it was a convenient way of answering MSS's "how many?" question to which I'm sure he wasnt expecting numeric replies. A quick google and i see I underestimated and the answer is "at least 15 million".

Mortgagefreeman

It will be interesting to see what the WASPI 'ask' is, when and if they take Legal action. They've been somewhat evasive on that, so far.

edinburgher

Money_saving_maniac wrote: »

This bloke is mad. How many people except government ministers, senior civil servants and other people at the top of the tree are going to get £250,000 in their pension pot? Is he demented?

As a couple, we earn just under median UK wages. We do pay quite a lot into our pensions (25%), but expect to surpass £250k each by the time we're 50, not 6x/whatever state pension age will be by then...

Like a lot of people, we have a bigger mortgage than we'd like, a car, a child and fairly typical spending.

miller

This is a question of trust. Do you trust whatever government(s) in charge between now and the time you take your benefits not to make any changes (e.g. these women the article relates to, scraping dividend tax relief, retrospective student loan changes etc.)? Do you trust the financial solvency of the pension provider and the government promises to make good if they go bust (e.g. some dodgy auto-enrollement schemes, Equitable Life etc.)?

There is more to it than "you're stupid if you don't take the tax relief and employer contribution". You are sacrificing complete control of that cash in the short term.

miller

BTW: I do have a pension, just trying to provide a bit of balance to the argument.

FaeirieQueen

I would like to suggest that this article does not reflect the truth about the hardships being faced by many women born in the 1950's and that the minister's comments are disingenous about the facts surrounding the supposed reasons for pension parity in both bills put through the Commons dated 1995 & 2011. To arrogantly state that WASPI aged women now have 'no straws to clutch to', is crass in the extreme. Given that one previous post stated she had 'lost' £48K over the six year period sounded heartbreaking but then MPs still have their gold-plated protected pensions. I would also like to suggest that to be fair, the same MSE news reporter that met with this ill informed minister, should also ask for an interview with the WASPI campaign team to get a balanced view from the 2.6 million women who have been affected. I also agree with the post which should remind MPs that 2.6 million women who have been affected either by months or in my own case 5years11months at a total cost of £47,400 would do well to remember that 'hell hath no fury as a woman scorned' and that there are many, many marginal seats out there which we will remember when election times come both local & national and I personally will send every one of the Tory MPs who sits in a marginal seat the words of this Pensions Minister. I think that his crass wording will come back to haunt the Tory party who already have a very slim majority. Many MPs forced a climb down about the few hundred pounds each year to be lost by the self-employed through NI contributions in their constituencies, yet they don't seem to have grasped the point that there are many thousands of WASPI aged women in their marginals who will remember this treachery when election time comes, especially those who have lost almost six years at £8,000 a year! Think on Pensions Minister because by the time 2.6 million women have had their revenge at the ballot box, the Tories will need a very big lifeboat to stay afloat. Women of our generation have had to have a great deal of patience and if we do not get fair transitional arrangements instead of a six year cliff edge, then your party will not be in government for a very long time. Think on that over your next tea and bun discussions with reporters! Also, that in the last pension parity amendment question in parliament last year, it was stated that due to the fact Poland is now a much wealthier country, the Polish equivalent WASPI aged women, have now had their state pension reinstated at the age of 60 and a Polish woman born in 1954 now gets a state pension, even back dated to 2014, in full. We may well now have the situation where a Polish lady comes over to the UK to do grandma duties and because she is an EU citizen quite rightly will be entitled to access to UK benefits. In England, because she might now have a small Polish pension and be classed as state retired, she may be entitled to pension credit top ups to UK levels, as well as access to an English bus pass, whereas English WASPI women will have nothing. Something has gone wrong when MPs want to protect the rights of 3.2 million EU citizens in Britain, but won't extend that right to English women who get no bus passes yet Scottish women, London women & some Welsh women get a bus pass at the age of 60. There is a great anomaly here which needs to be righted and soon.