Ford Fiesta Powershift - rolling back on an incline?

batman2000

Thanks... I'm grateful you took the time to write this out because I was interpreting your short responses as 'digs'.

I agree that I need more driving experience in this car to really get to grips with it, and you are right in thinking I'm not someone who jumps in and out of different cars. I learned in a manual many years ago, but switched to automatics almost immediately and have forgotten pretty much all my manual training (necessary for the hill starts). Which makes me think a lesson or two might not be a bad idea, as a confidence builder.

As for only doing 50 miles a week, it's more than that (probably double) but yes, it's low mileage. I drove the last car (an automatic A class Merc) for a number of years and it was like an extension of myself. A very comfortable ride and totally solid on hills - it would even creep up some of them. So yes, this new car has me discombobulated if for no other reason than it rolls back. I wish I'd known that. If we (auto drivers) all going to be forced to go this way (towards powershift-type autos) then so be it. But I think it needs extra tuition. What kinds of automatics are lessons given in these days? Maybe it'll get to the point where everyone has to learn in a manual, or at least have a wider range of experience during lessons.

Manxman_in_exile

FWIW I think you are worrying yourself unduly. 100 miles or so is not enough to get used to a different car.


I can't comment on the automatic transmission but I can comment on the "Hill start assist" you also mention. We bought a Mondeo a couple of years ago and it has that feature. For the first couple of months or so it was a real pain, I couldn't get used to it, and I couldn't see the point of having such a "stupid" feature.


However...within a relatively short period of time I(*) adapted to it and now it's second nature. In fact I now think it's a wonderful idea and great in slow moving stop-start traffic uphill. But I do occasionally switch it off to make sure I don't lose the knack of proper hill starts.


So my advice, like the others on here, is persevere and you'll get used to it (and the gearbox) quite quickly.


(*) My wife still hates it and I think she still uses the manual handbrake rather than holding the footbrake

AdrianC

batman2000 wrote: »

But I think it needs extra tuition. What kinds of automatics are lessons given in these days?

If you speak to a good, local instructor - a one-man-band - then I'm sure they'll give you a lesson or three in your own car.

batman2000

Manxman, I know I'm overthinking it! So I'm grateful for being able to talk it through here. Glad to hear I'm not the only one with reservations about the 'hill start assist' - I have a feeling I might end up using the manual handbrake more often than not, like your wife does. I'll see how it goes. it's good to know it's possible to get used to it though!

AdrianC, I think my old instructor still works in our area. I'm going to give it another week and may give him a call...

Manxman_in_exile

Well I don't really know if my wife has issues with it or not - it's just that she seems to use the manual handbrake more than I would.


I now think "Hill start assist" is a great idea. It makes driving in slow moving stop-start traffic uphill much easier. Car control is much better using it without faffing about with the handbrake. But if it looks like you are going to be stationary for quite some time (traffic lights?) I will use the handbrake as I don't like depressing the clutch and footbrake for long periods.


I think the biggest problems I had with it were (1) getting used to not automatically reaching for the handbrake and (2) judging the maximum time period between releasing the footbrake and getting onto the accelerator before the car starts to roll back. You will get used to it.


I've no experience of automatics (so apologies if I've got wrong end of the stick) but I think I agree with what Adrian or one of the other posters have said. It sounds as if when going uphill and wanting to stop, you are depressing the footbrake just enough to put the gearboxes into neutral, but you aren't then continuing to supply sufficient pressure to bring the car to a smooth halt before rolling back. (I know - easy for me to say!)


If I were you I'd try to find a quiet hill somewhere (if you can) and practise stopping and starting until confident about what you are doing.

batman2000

Manxman, thanks again, you've been very helpful and put my mind at rest . I guess using the handbrake more often than not would just give me more reassurance - it depends how much confidence I gain from the hill start assist.

It's good to know that you've also had some concern about the time allowed from switching your foot from the footbrake and onto the accelerator: something I'm practising. It's been coupled with not knowing how much pressure to apply to the accelerator, resulting in some very jerky movements! Oops! But I'm getting there :-).

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

I've no experience of automatics (so apologies if I've got wrong end of the stick) but I think I agree with what Adrian or one of the other posters have said. It sounds as if when going uphill and wanting to stop, you are depressing the footbrake just enough to put the gearboxes into neutral, but you aren't then continuing to supply sufficient pressure to bring the car to a smooth halt before rolling back. (I know - easy for me to say!)

You are spot on with this! Because my last car would happily creep up a hill, I didn't need to apply the brakes all the way.. just enough to come to a stop and then release them to get going again (usually crawling in traffic). So I'm not used to having to apply the brakes completely. Of course, I'll adjust my driving style and increase pressure on the brake so that hill start assist kicks in, but it came as a bit of a shock the first time because I rolled back a little and the car was slow to respond to my foot on the accelerator! I didn't understand what was happening.

Thanks again. The sun's out today and I have some free time so will find a quiet hill somewhere...

Manxman_in_exile

Good. One other thing that might help (please don't take this the wrong way!) but have you actually read the manual?


In our Mondeo's manual there's an entry in the index "Using Hill Launch Assist". This explains what it is intended to do, how it does it and when it will do it. Once I'd read that and understood what it was doing and how I should use it I had no problems with it.


Might there also be an entry in your car's manual headed "Using Powershift Transmission"?


Otherwise agree with AdrianC. Book an hour with an instructor and then go find a hill to practise on.


(PS - I noticed this morning it's called "Hill Launch Assist" on the Mondeo but I presume it's the same as on your car).

batman2000

Manxman, thanks again, and sorry for the delay...

Yes, we'd looked at the manual when we got the car home (good question!). The section about hill start assist is very brief, and (I can't remember the exact wording - the manual is in the car) it doesn't indicate that you have to depress the brake firmly to engage hill start assist. So I knew about it, but didn't realise that for hill start assist to work I'd have to press the brake pedal further than I needed to in order to bring the car to a full stop. My husband wonders if the brakes need a slight adjustment, although on the whole he's much happier with the car than I am...

I've driven a lot more since my last post and got to grips with the hill starts, so feel more confident now. Less discombobulated!!! But I'm still somewhat annoyed that the dealership failed to point out the differences between powershift and full automatic (which they knew we drove, because we traded our previous car in).

takman

batman2000 wrote: »

Manxman, thanks again, and sorry for the delay...

Yes, we'd looked at the manual when we got the car home (good question!). The section about hill start assist is very brief, and (I can't remember the exact wording - the manual is in the car) it doesn't indicate that you have to depress the brake firmly to engage hill start assist. So I knew about it, but didn't realise that for hill start assist to work I'd have to press the brake pedal further than I needed to in order to bring the car to a full stop. My husband wonders if the brakes need a slight adjustment, although on the whole he's much happier with the car than I am...

I've driven a lot more since my last post and got to grips with the hill starts, so feel more confident now. Less discombobulated!!! But I'm still somewhat annoyed that the dealership failed to point out the differences between powershift and full automatic (which they knew we drove, because we traded our previous car in).

That's why the dealerships offer people test drives so that people looking to buy cars can try them out to make sure they are happy with them. So the salesperson isn't going to spend time telling people what they are like to drive when people are free to drive them themselves.


If the salesperson had told you that this car uses an electroncially controlled gearbox and clutch system instead of a torque converter and planetary gearbox, which means that it doesn't move forward by itself when you take your foot off the brake.
Would that have helped you understand how the car drives differently? or would it have just left you confused?.

batman2000

takman wrote: »

That's why the dealerships offer people test drives so that people looking to buy cars can try them out to make sure they are happy with them. So the salesperson isn't going to spend time telling people what they are like to drive when people are free to drive them themselves.

Ah, but as I think I already mentioned, the test drive was pretty much on the flat. Husband didn't think to find any significant inclines, salesman didn't suggest it, and the test drive therefore didn't highlight any rolling-back issues. Since we don't buy cars that often and we (wrongly) assumed it would behave like our previous car, we just didn't realise the difference. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

takman wrote: »

If the salesperson had told you that this car uses an electroncially controlled gearbox and clutch system instead of a torque converter and planetary gearbox, which means that it doesn't move forward by itself when you take your foot off the brake.
Would that have helped you understand how the car drives differently? or would it have just left you confused?.

Actually, if we'd realised in the beginning that this gear box behaved differently then we would probably not have bought the car. As it is, my husband's happy enough with it, and I'm getting used to it ;-).