'Forced' work from Job Center.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

BJV wrote: »

Why should I have to pay 40% tax so you can keep your savings??? You say holy'er than thou but how is that fair?

That's the bargain you make living in society. It's society that allows you to make enough to pay 40% tax. You haven't created the infrastructure that allows you to live and operate, or the conditions that have given you some sort of marketable skill. It's society that stops the poor hitting you over the head and taking all you have. Two sides of the same coin.

annandale

Speaking as someone who has been on jsa and had to run a home on benefits. I'd expect that even if someone was claiming jsa and had savings, they'd need to use those savings to pay bills sooner rather than later.

290 pounds a month to meet bills even if rent is paid for or part paid for isn't a lot of income.

Tammykitty

BJV wrote: »

What? Really? I work really hard, far too hard & pay lots and lots of tax. I also pay child care and can not afford to save. Next month I will end my 14 year child care bill. I have never been able to claim anything . Ever ! Why should I have to pay 40% tax so you can keep your savings??? You say holy'er than thou but how is that fair?

Sorry but our welfare systems are amazing the issue and the whole problem with why we have "all over spent is not the system it is the people who selectively abuse it.

I employee people and I would always want to see a get off by bum attitude. I would be very worried if someone was on JSA for years and did nothing. I would and have employed and do employee people who have been out of work but I would always want to see what they where doing while unemployed. What work did they do, what re-train?

The OP has been on JSA since December - so isn't long term unemployed.


If I was made unemployed tomorrow, I would claim Contributions based JSA (And if entitled Income based JSA afterwards) regardless of savings.


£73 a week doesn't go far, the savings are going to be used anyway, but will be used slower if I get the £73 a week.


Who knows - maybe someday you will need to claim it too.


You are very fortunate that you have never been in a position to claim benefits - many people get sick, get made redundant etc.
Not all claimants are lifetime claimants


Also- until recently, even higher rate tax payers were entitled to child benefit - did you not claim that?

BJV

Tammykitty wrote: »

The OP has been on JSA since December - so isn't long term unemployed. No its not and I sincerely hope that the OP finds something soon. Fingers crossed. My post was not in response to the Op it was in response to another post who advocated claiming as they should not have to touch their savings.


If I was made unemployed tomorrow, I would claim Contributions based JSA (And if entitled Income based JSA afterwards) regardless of savings. Your choice. I would make myself survive for as long as I could but again my choice.


£73 a week doesn't go far, the savings are going to be used anyway, but will be used slower if I get the £73 a week. Completely agree £73.00 would be very difficult but the post I was responding to implied that they should not have to use any.


Who knows - maybe someday you will need to claim it too. For the Grace of god I hope not. I self funded the start of my business and had no income for two years. Got into soo much debt and had some very dark times so I sincerely hope not. Some days where so bad, really bad, nearly lost family, home and sanity.


You are very fortunate that you have never been in a position to claim benefits - many people get sick, get made redundant etc.
Not all claimants are lifetime claimants. No not all are but there are a number that are and they stop genuine people getting the real help they need. I wish that there was more that we could do to help.


Also- until recently, even higher rate tax payers were entitled to child benefit - did you not claim that?

No I did not.

BJV

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

That's the bargain you make living in society. It's society that allows you to make enough to pay 40% tax. You haven't created the infrastructure that allows you to live and operate, or the conditions that have given you some sort of marketable skill. It's society that stops the poor hitting you over the head and taking all you have. Two sides of the same coin.

It is also society that stops the few leaving those in need without any help what so ever.

Please do not miss understand me. I am no angel but I love the ethos of our system in that I am happy to help anyone who needs help. There are some genuine people out there who are desperate and need help now. What I don't like is the what can I claim what can I have culture.

All the rules all the hoops that genuine people have to jump through to get help makes me sick to the stomach. It is the people who are career claimants who take the funds away from these people.

Our system should be a safety net not a career choice and for some, not all I hasten to add but for some it is.

BJV

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

Some people are indeed virtually unemployable but training them doesn't help. How many times can you train a person to stack shelves? How long does it take?

.

I agree but what can you do? You can not simply leave people like this ? I would like / hope to think that anyone can change? Surely we can not simply accept that "we have to fund everything for ever?

Hey I don't know the answers I wish I did I just know that if ever I have spoken to someone who has been long term unemployed one big issue has been confidence or lack of. Again I stress I don't have the answers but if un paid work, routine and structure helps in some small way then for me I would class it as a success.

patman99

These schemes are just used to allow companies to have some free labour as other folks have already stated. I only know of 1 person who ever got (and still has) a job via one of the original scheme.

I do, however, know of many folks who have been used as free labour with no prospect of employment afterwards.

From my own experience, I found myself replaced by free labour (along with another 5 workmates) when one employer did the math and worked-out how much they could save each year by participating in a WP scheme.

I also had the pleasure of seeing a local homeless charity go to the wall after I was placed on a WP scheme with them and responded by adding them to the boycottworkfare website list of WF providers (one of the charity's main sponsors spotted their name on the list and pulled funding as they were against such schemes).

Would I claim JSA when not in work?. Yes, I would. It is my entitlement to claim, so I do when not working.

mattcanary

RedfordML wrote: »

I don't understand, if your only concern for working the 8 hours isn't getting paid, why are you not in employment??

As if she isn;t looking!
Idiot!

Londonsu

patman99 wrote: »

These schemes are just used to allow companies to have some free labour as other folks have already stated. I only know of 1 person who ever got (and still has) a job via one of the original scheme.

I do, however, know of many folks who have been used as free labour with no prospect of employment afterwards.

From my own experience, I found myself replaced by free labour (along with another 5 workmates) when one employer did the math and worked-out how much they could save each year by participating in a WP scheme.

I also had the pleasure of seeing a local homeless charity go to the wall after I was placed on a WP scheme with them and responded by adding them to the boycottworkfare website list of WF providers (one of the charity's main sponsors spotted their name on the list and pulled funding as they were against such schemes).

Would I claim JSA when not in work?. Yes, I would. It is my entitlement to claim, so I do when not working.

Pleasure?? now I have hard it all, I am really glad the homeless charity I work for is able to recruit volunteers who want to give their time even when they have already worked for 40 plus years and in many cases still pay tax, I shudder to think what my job would be like having to deal with bitter, entitled benefit claimants who would rather my charity went to the wall then doing a bit of work.


I too was a volunteer, gave up my time willingly when I was out if work for 6 months , that led to my paid job and due to the fact that I trebled the takings of my shop in the first year have been promoted twice in the 2 1/2 years I have worked for them.

mattcanary

BJV wrote: »

What? Really? I work really hard, far too hard & pay lots and lots of tax. I also pay child care and can not afford to save. Next month I will end my 14 year child care bill. I have never been able to claim anything . Ever ! Why should I have to pay 40% tax so you can keep your savings??? You say holy'er than thou but how is that fair?

Sorry but our welfare systems are amazing the issue and the whole problem with why we have "all over spent is not the system it is the people who selectively abuse it.

I employee people and I would always want to see a get off by bum attitude. I would be very worried if someone was on JSA for years and did nothing. I would and have employed and do employee people who have been out of work but I would always want to see what they where doing while unemployed. What work did they do, what re-train?

How much tax people pay does not bear a close resemblance to how hard they work!
Amazing how many fools believe this to be the case.