Taking money from debit card without permission - is this allowed?

charmi

Hi, I'm new to the forum but wanted to get some advice. The other night I put my card behind the bar after ordering 2 glasses of wine. Left later that evening, having left my card and subsequently not paying for my wine. I returnned as soon as they opened the next day with cash to pay for the 2 drinks and to get my card back, but the manager had charged the drinks to my card. He didn't have my signature and he didn't have my PIN, so was he allowed to do this. He justifyed it by saying it was to do with his EPOS system?? Anyone else experienced this?

joanne0620

I don't know the legalities of what the bar manager did, BUT, in theory you consumed 2 glasses of wine without paying for them (how was the manager to know that you were going to return the next day?) So (if it was me) I would just take it on the chin, as long as all you have been charged for is what you have consumed then (in my opinion only) I don't see that the manager has done anything wrong.

Probably not the answer you wanted, as I say I have no idea whether this is legally right or wrong but these are just my thoughts

RadoJo

Presumably the very reason a card was put behind the bar was to secure payment? I would say that you had authorised the transaction by giving them your card, and not offering an alternative form of payment. You don't have to sign anything or be there - you can give your card details over the phone to pay for things, and you aren't asked specifically 'Do you authorise this payment of £x' - the fact that you are giving them your details is your acceptance of the charge to your account.

davey69_2

I would say the very fact you put the card behind the bar shows that you were intending to pay with it. Thats why you are required to give a swipe or the actual card when you start a tab - you are essentially giving them permission to charge it.
When I worked in hotels, if guests left without us processing their card, because they had given the card on check in that meant we had permission the charge the card for the amount spent. So I would say he was well within his rights - he would have had to cash all the outstanding bills off the system (EPOS is electonic point of sale I think) which is why he would have charged it there and then rather than waiting on the off chance that you popped back in the morning.

taxi97w

I think he's asking - how can they get authorisation with chip and pin in place.
But I understand what you're saying about giving your number over the phone, you don't use either. So what sort of physical system do companies use when you just give your details over the phone?
Sorry I'm more of a hinderance than a help.:o

davey69_2

Over the phone I think a lot of companies use an internet based card processing system (we do) which doesnt require a pin number. As for chip and pin machines you just need a supervisor card to override the need for the pin number. Like when we were accepting deposits over the phone for functions etc you just key in the card number and press customer not present.

hjb123

I guess its like at a hotel, for example I stayed in a marriot hotel a month or so ago, on arrival they swiped my card and at no time did I put a pin number in or anything. The next day on departure I just handed my key over and left knowing that they would put the money on my card, in effect that was the reason I let my card be swiped

lolarentt

charmi wrote: »

Hi, I'm new to the forum but wanted to get some advice. The other night I put my card behind the bar after ordering 2 glasses of wine. Left later that evening, having left my card and subsequently not paying for my wine. I returnned as soon as they opened the next day with cash to pay for the 2 drinks and to get my card back, but the manager had charged the drinks to my card. He didn't have my signature and he didn't have my PIN, so was he allowed to do this?

That's why establishments ask you to leave card behind the bar, so they get the money if you leave without paying!

They don't need any more info than is on the card - I often buy stuff over the phone, or online and if I get sent a cc receipt it is endorsed "customer not present" which must be an option on the cc machine.

uktim29

Have you not thought of their side of the story. You left without paying!

charmi

taxi97w wrote: »

I think he's asking - how can they get authorisation with chip and pin in place.
But I understand what you're saying about giving your number over the phone, you don't use either. So what sort of physical system do companies use when you just give your details over the phone?
Sorry I'm more of a hinderance than a help.:o

Yes, you're right - that's what I was asking. I think some of the other respondants thought I had an issue with the manager - I don't - I get the fact that by handing my card over, I am securing payment, I just didn't realise they could do it without authorisation. As you say - what sort of system do companies have when you give details over thephone? Kind of devalues the point of Chip & Pin etc??

Thanks all of you for your responses - much appreciated

fiendishly

Do tell us what happened, why did you leave without paying? :beer: