guarantor

gailmanchester

Help.
I am due in court soon as I have to defend a CCJ which a landlord has applied for saying that I owe £8,500 for unpaid rent by my sister. I signed as guarantor 3 years ago. I was never contacted by landlords or the managing agent reeds Rains at any point in 18 months of my sisters rent arrears accruing into the thousands, and they also took no action in evicting her until recently (the landlady, and she is also charging me the court fees) Then allowed her to stay in the property rent free and only contacted me to pay the massive amount or court. I contacted reeds rains who cannot explain why they did not contact me as guarantor and infact give up trying to contact the landlord/owner a year ago when there was 2 months rent arrears and the landlords changed numbers and emails bounced. Furthermore, my sister told me one year ago when the first 6 month period was up, that the landlord said, forget reeds rains they are rubbish (this explains why reeds rains could not get contact) and when my sister said I did not want to be guarantor anymore (she defaulted and I had to pay her rent on one occasion) they said she does not have to be guarantor . This is why they did not contact me, until lucky for them they now produce an agreement that says I am liable as long as tenant stays in property , for some strange reason, only evicted her recently , wracking up 8,000K and want me to pay it or CCJ. I do not have this amount and as I was never given an opportunity to pay, will end up with a CCJ probably into my retirement if they apply an attachment of earnings. I am beside myself . I have never had a debt. I am bewildered. I am preparing a defence for court, any advice would be much appreciated.

theartfullodger

When you signed as guarantor, was it a "Deed of guarantee", witnessed by someone else (not you or landlord)? Were you given time to review the guarantee document & the tenancy agreement and advised to take legal advice, given a couple of days to think about it?

Were you given copies of both guarantee and tenancy agreement?

Which country (Wales, Scotland, NI..) are you in?

Call Shelter, 0808 800 4444.

Why hasn't sister paid? She's the one who should be sorting it.

How long was the original tenancy? Have there been any rent increases??

Was she sole tenant or was she one of a number of joint tenants?

Who is suing you, landlord(owner) or agent, please?

Cakeguts

This is the fault of your sister. What effort to move out of the property did she make when she realised that she couldn't pay the rent.

Your sister could not live in someone's property rent free so why didn't she tell you that she couldn't afford to pay the rent and warn you that you as guarantor would be asked to pay it. If your sister paid her rent all of your problems would disappear. You cannot blame the letting agent or the landlord for this. The entire blame is on your sister who did not pay her rent and did not tell you that she wasn't paying it.

ctbfc

Out of interest if the OP were to go bankrupt would that invalidate the deed of guarantee?

Guest101

gailmanchester wrote: »

Help.
I am due in court soon as I have to defend a CCJ which a landlord has applied for saying that I owe £8,500 for unpaid rent by my sister. - ok, step one do you owe the money? I signed as guarantor 3 years ago. I was never contacted by landlords or the managing agent reeds Rains at any point in 18 months of my sisters rent arrears accruing into the thousands - nor would you be. , and they also took no action in evicting her until recently (the landlady, and she is also charging me the court fees) - correct, they're not obliged to evict her. Then allowed her to stay in the property rent free and only contacted me to pay the massive amount or court. - that is what you signed up for. I contacted reeds rains who cannot explain why they did not contact me as guarantor and infact give up trying to contact the landlord/owner a year ago when there was 2 months rent arrears and the landlords changed numbers and emails bounced. - not relevant. You should be angry at your sister, not the LL. Furthermore, my sister told me one year ago when the first 6 month period was up, that the landlord said, forget reeds rains they are rubbish (this explains why reeds rains could not get contact) - that's upto the landlord. and when my sister said I did not want to be guarantor anymore - cant do that (she defaulted and I had to pay her rent on one occasion) they said she does not have to be guarantor . This is why they did not contact me, until lucky for them they now produce an agreement that says I am liable as long as tenant stays in property - well is that what you signed? , for some strange reason, only evicted her recently , wracking up 8,000K and want me to pay it or CCJ. - so blame your sister I do not have this amount and as I was never given an opportunity to pay, will end up with a CCJ probably into my retirement if they apply an attachment of earnings. - again that's your sisters fault I am beside myself . I have never had a debt. I am bewildered. I am preparing a defence for court, any advice would be much appreciated.

two questions:


1 was it executed as a deed, with witness signatures?
2 did you see the tenancy agreement prior to signing

Guest101

ctbfc wrote: »

Out of interest if the OP were to go bankrupt would that invalidate the deed of guarantee?

It would to a point.


I mean the OP would lose most of their assets and never get credit again.....

MyOnlyPost

It seems to be your best (maybe only) defence will be if you can get the agreement you signed thrown out as an invalid contract if it wasn't done properly or is poorly drafted. Other than that I agree with everyone elses points, your sister could have moved out of her own free will without waiting to be evicted. Unfortunately as her guarantor you are equally liable for her debt and the Landlord will pursue the person they feel best able to get the money from

G_M

So

1) you agreed to be guarantor, ie to pay your sister's rent (and cover damage?) if she defaulted.

2) she defaulted on the rent

3) the landlady is suing you

On the face of it, this seems unambiguous.

The fact that the LL stopped using the agent is irrelevant. The agent is simply an employee of the LL. That does not affect either the tenant's responsibility ( ie your sister) to pay rent or your responsibility to make up any arrears.

What does your sister say? Did she think she could live there rent-free? Have you asked her for the money? Have you attempted to get her joined to the legal action?

As suggested above, your only defence is if the guarantee agreement was not properly drawn up - in that case you could get it invalidated and therefore defend the action.

gailmanchester

Thanks for your replies.
The sister conveniently says nothing and just crys, holds head in hand. Being on benefits and only fresh into a new job, I can only hope by not going berserk, they may be some chance of getting some of the money off her. With no assets and obviously no budgeting skills or any ounce of being reliable, that is what i am on here and trying to work out I can resolve this myself., as I am alone in dealing with this.
I signed as guarantor for in front of a witness at reeds rains, unfortunately I did not rad the document. I do not blame the LL , I just wished I would have been informed then I was not in this position now. When the second agreement was drawn up, I was not involved, but it appears to be a continuation of the first. I have asked that my sister be in court and be a witness, I want to hear what she has got to say. I have agonised over why she has done this to me and lived there all this time without moving, but the only thing I can do now is attend court and face the consequences. There was a deed of guarantee, I did not read it when I signed it unfortunately , the office was due to close in 16=5 mins and they asked me to be quick in signing it.
I know I am liable and I have been told I have no defence, I just found it hard to sink in, I did not think my own sister would do this.
I have to try and get a loan and my credit isnt great through recent searching for loans. I spoke to shelter and they advise this:
here is no general rule either that a guarantee is limited to the fixed term of a tenancy, or conversely that it carries over into a periodic tenancy. Everything depends on what was agreed between the landlord and the guarantor.

If the guarantee agreement refers to the guarantor accepting liability for the rent and any other sums due 'under this tenancy/agreement', the inference is likely to be that the guarantee extends beyond the fixed term into the statutory periodic tenancy, unless there is evidence to the contrary.



Sometimes, there is no clear indication in the agreement. There may be only a basic guarantee clause referring to the guarantor being liable to the landlord for any unpaid rent and other liabilities under the agreement. It is arguable that the court should interpret that clause narrowly to refer to the fixed term only, the contrary position would mean that the guarantor would remain liable to the landlord for an indefinite period, and as the guarantor is not party to the tenancy agreement s/he cannot serve notice to terminate the tenancy.


I could do with looking at the guarantor agreement as there is a potential that the clause we discussed in the past could be an unfair contract term





Terms that may be unfair could include those that hold a guarantor:

liable for rent beyond the fixed term (ie where the tenancy has become a statutory periodic tenancy), or
liable for rent in the event of any variation or renewal of the tenancy, or (where there is a joint tenancy) liable for the default , including the non-payment of rent, of all joint tenants.

BUT I THINK THEY ARE MISTAKEN

pmlindyloo

The first thing you need to do is get a copy of the guarantor agreement and the tenancy agreement.

There may be a clause that stipulates that the landlord must minimise the amount the guarantor pays by evicting as soon as possible. Also, a judge may find that 18 months before eviction was unfair on you as a guarantor.

Plus, as already said the guarantor agreement needs to be checked.

My advice would be to get some specialist help for this.

It is possible that if your local CAB has a housing specialist they may be able to put you in touch with a solicitor that specialises in these matters.

Or, do you have legal cover on your home insurance?

Or could Shelter signpost you to someone who could help?

steampowered

As a court process has been initiated, if you want to get practical help with what you actually write in your defence, you might want to try posting on CAG.

If you want help pulling together a defence, you need to tell us exactly what the 'particulars of claim' states. If you have a copy of the guarantee you should also copy/paste the exact wording of the relevant clause. It is a pointless for people to speculate about whether the claim is valid or not without that fundamental information.

If you do not have a copy of the guarantee agreement, you should lodge a CPR 27.14 request to get one.

Realistically, you probably don't have time to get an appointment with the CAB or get legal help from your home insurance before the deadline for submitting your defence.

You need to acknowledge service and lodge a defence within the deadlines specified on the form, or you will lose the case by default.