guarantor

pmlindyloo

Other thing you might do is to find out exactly whether the letting agent was acting for the landlord through the tenancy. (difficult to tell from your post)

So, you would need a statement from the letting agent to say why you were not contacted (because the landlord changed their contact details?) or if the letting agent's contract ended with the landlord why the landlord didn't contact you or evict the tenant.

G_M

Getting copies of the documents (GA and tenancy, and claim) is imperative. As steampowered says, it's pointless us saying 'maybe this' and 'maybe that'. You need proper advice based on specific facts, not 'maybe's.

And I know this is ot what you want to hear, but you're not the only victim here. The landlord is seriously out of pocket. One might query why he's waited 18 months, but we don't know all the facts. Given your sister's attitude, it seems quite possible he's been writing to her and she's been ignoring him. One might say he's actually been very understanding in allowing er to keep a roof over her head all this time.......

silvercar

ctbfc wrote: »

Out of interest if the OP were to go bankrupt would that invalidate the deed of guarantee?

Drastic action and OP would have to show he took advice before going bankrupt. A bankrupt couldn't be held liable for debts up to the date of bankruptcy.

It may be that the landlord will accept a settlement rather than pursue a CCJ. A lump sum now may be preferable to going to court and incurring costs which could take a while to be paid back.

pinkshoes

Given most LLs can and would take action after just two months of unpaid rent, I would argue that waiting 18 months before contacting the guarantor is ridiculous!

I would be tempted to counter offer the equivalent of 6 months rent which would equate to the two months unpaid before they should have contacted you or issued an S8, plus the time it would have taken to evict.

gailmanchester

Thank you so much for all your time and consideration in replying.
I contacted reeds rains and initially, they were unhelpful and promised to get someone more senior to call back. They didn't. Then the other day, I called again and asked them to hear me out and listen to my concerns and ask that they try and make sense of why they never contacted me. Reeds rains then explained that a year ago when my sister owed only two months rent , they attempted to contact the landlord to ask permission (they said they are required to do this) to issue a section 8. They had no reply, numbers appeared to have changed , emails bounced back. They have recorded on there system that they 'presumed property gone back to owner' They gave up and left it. They were sympathetic and that point and have offered to supply me with a letter for court and notes on their system for my defence if it helps. They explained that the usual process is to contact guarantor and say that because the local branch (this was head office) failed to do anything and is in fact closed down now.
They feel this is unfair, although I am afraid that this does not clear me of liability.
Of course, I will hope that they are willing to settle some way in between

gailmanchester

I will never be able to work out why they allowed her to stay and not evict. As it happened, her rent was being paid directly to the landlords initially by housing benefit, at some point this changed and was paid directly to the sister and she spent it. The landlords could have contacted housing benefit to ask for it to be paid directly or well i don't know.....alert them to this

Cakeguts

gailmanchester wrote: »

I will never be able to work out why they allowed her to stay and not evict. As it happened, her rent was being paid directly to the landlords initially by housing benefit, at some point this changed and was paid directly to the sister and she spent it. The landlords could have contacted housing benefit to ask for it to be paid directly or well i don't know.....alert them to this

If your sister was in a position to rent a house and claim housing benefit then there was nothing stopping her from telling you that she had stopped paying the rent.

Guest101

gailmanchester wrote: »

Thanks for your replies.
The sister conveniently says nothing and just crys, holds head in hand. Being on benefits and only fresh into a new job, I can only hope by not going berserk, they may be some chance of getting some of the money off her. - This seems unlikely. With no assets and obviously no budgeting skills or any ounce of being reliable, that is what i am on here and trying to work out I can resolve this myself., as I am alone in dealing with this.
I signed as guarantor for in front of a witness at reeds rains, unfortunately I did not rad the document. - Not really their fault you didn't read it, however the witness should not be an employee of the agent. I do not blame the LL , I just wished I would have been informed then I was not in this position now. - does your sister not communicate with you? When the second agreement was drawn up, I was not involved, but it appears to be a continuation of the first. - hmmm, need to think on that. Any terms different? I have asked that my sister be in court and be a witness, I want to hear what she has got to say. - hopefully you'll do that before court?! I have agonised over why she has done this to me and lived there all this time without moving, but the only thing I can do now is attend court and face the consequences. - no you can settle before court and save yourself some money. There was a deed of guarantee, I did not read it when I signed it unfortunately , the office was due to close in 16=5 mins and they asked me to be quick in signing it. - learn to say no.
I know I am liable and I have been told I have no defence, I just found it hard to sink in, I did not think my own sister would do this. - that's often the case
I have to try and get a loan and my credit isnt great through recent searching for loans. I spoke to shelter and they advise this:
here is no general rule either that a guarantee is limited to the fixed term of a tenancy, or conversely that it carries over into a periodic tenancy. Everything depends on what was agreed between the landlord and the guarantor. - indeed. However it's common practice to be held liable until the tenancy ends.

If the guarantee agreement refers to the guarantor accepting liability for the rent and any other sums due 'under this tenancy/agreement', the inference is likely to be that the guarantee extends beyond the fixed term into the statutory periodic tenancy, unless there is evidence to the contrary. - indeed.



Sometimes, there is no clear indication in the agreement. There may be only a basic guarantee clause referring to the guarantor being liable to the landlord for any unpaid rent and other liabilities under the agreement. It is arguable that the court should interpret that clause narrowly to refer to the fixed term only, the contrary position would mean that the guarantor would remain liable to the landlord for an indefinite period, and as the guarantor is not party to the tenancy agreement s/he cannot serve notice to terminate the tenancy. - Indeed. But that is not in itself unfair.


I could do with looking at the guarantor agreement as there is a potential that the clause we discussed in the past could be an unfair contract term - yes





Terms that may be unfair could include those that hold a guarantor:

liable for rent beyond the fixed term (ie where the tenancy has become a statutory periodic tenancy), or
liable for rent in the event of any variation or renewal of the tenancy, or (where there is a joint tenancy) liable for the default , including the non-payment of rent, of all joint tenants.

BUT I THINK THEY ARE MISTAKEN

Read these words:


'May' 'Could' - it's equally possible that I 'may' build a rocket ship and 'could' fly to the moon. It's ambiguous.

gailmanchester

My sister never communicated anything in all the time she was not paying rent and so it is not surprising that she not since, she hides behind a victim mask and as I work and have my own property, she must feel that it should not be such if a problem to me. I have given up waiting hear some excuse as to how this all came about, I suspect that it is something she does not want to admit to and has some kind of addiction. I have had to suspend my bitterness about this as this is not going to help me to resolve the matter, she obviously has no intentions of explaining herself and as she has never been in work until only recently she has no money to settle this debt even if she had the conscience to do so. I have to focus on what I need to do to resolve this and not dwell on how traumatised I am at what she has done. I want to rid myself of any involvement with her and move on.


To answer your question; I signed the agreement with an employee at Reeds Rains with my sister present


I have been to see Shelter who will assist with my defence at least.

Guest101

gailmanchester wrote: »

My sister never communicated anything in all the time she was not paying rent and so it is not surprising that she not since, she hides behind a victim mask and as I work and have my own property, she must feel that it should not be such if a problem to me. I have given up waiting hear some excuse as to how this all came about, I suspect that it is something she does not want to admit to and has some kind of addiction. I have had to suspend my bitterness about this as this is not going to help me to resolve the matter, she obviously has no intentions of explaining herself and as she has never been in work until only recently she has no money to settle this debt even if she had the conscience to do so. I have to focus on what I need to do to resolve this and not dwell on how traumatised I am at what she has done. I want to rid myself of any involvement with her and move on.


To answer your question; I signed the agreement with an employee at Reeds Rains with my sister present


I have been to see Shelter who will assist with my defence at least.

If you think you have a realistic defence, it could be worth paying a solicitor.