Working Tax Credits with Disability element.

aggietrac

Hi All, I've been claiming working tax credits with the disability element since I started my job over 8 years ago. I had been on Incapacity benefit for over 4 years and the Jobcentre staff had been great in helping me back to work, they helped me with any claims I was entitled to, such as help with fares etc. They helped me get my job and also filled in the forms for Working Tax Credits with the disability element. I didn't think there was anything else I needed to do so each year when it was renewal time I just said I had no change of circumstances. Anyway before last Christmas the Tax credits said they were doing random checks and could I send in my wageslips, which I did. Then I checked my bank account on the 25th Jan as was due my tax credits and there was nothing there. I rang and was told that I wasn't entitled to the disability element and I need to pay back over £5000! I have been left in a right mess. I've asked for a Reconsideration and after lots of searching on the internet I found several sites that say I am entitled to still get the disability element because I had been on Incapacity Benefit and that in itself is a qualifying clause (even the CAB think I should still be entitled to it). The fact that I no longer receive it is neither here or there. I still do have the disability and it will never get better. I have another 3-4 weeks to hear back from the Tax credits people but all this is driving me crazy and I wondered if anyone on here could back this up for me. I have since applied for PIP but I'm still waiting to hear when the face to face interview is. I am on a very low wage and this on top of everything else is tipping me over the edge. I want to keep my job but won't be able to without help.

Darksparkle

Page 5 confirms the criteria if claiming under incapacity benefit - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/534178/TC956_04_16_1.0.pdf

That's assuming you meet the criteria for conditions 1, 2 and 3.

When have they disallowed the disability element from?

Alice_Holt

"In addition to working at least 16 hours a week, you have to satisfy two other tests - a ‘work disadvantage test’, and be in receipt (or recent receipt) of a ‘qualifying benefit’.

Qualifying Benefit
Condition A - At any time in the last 26 weeks before you claim WTC you were getting higher rate of short term incapacity benefit (IB), long-term incapacity benefit (IB), severe disablement allowance (SDA) or employment and support allowance (ESA: providing you have been entitled to it for at least 28 weeks – including linked periods and periods on statutory sick pay (SSP)).

The 'disability' test
To get the disability element of WTC included in your assessment, you must have a ‘physical or mental disability which puts [you] at a disadvantage in getting a job’. This is assessed by the 'disability' test.

Disability that puts you are a disadvantage in getting a job.
You will pass the disability test for working tax credit if:
on an initial claim, one (or more) of the conditions in Part 1 or 2 apply to you;
on a renewal claim, one (or more) of the conditions in Part 1 apply to you.

Part 1
1. When standing you cannot keep your balance unless you continually hold onto something.
2. Using any crutches, walking frame, walking stick, prosthesis or similar walking aid which you normally use, you cannot walk a continuous distance of 100 metres along level ground without stopping or without suffering severe pain.
3. You can use neither of your hands behind your back as in the process of putting on a jacket or of tucking a shirt into trousers.
4. You can extend neither of your arms in front of you so as to shake hands with another person without difficulty.
5. You can put neither of your hands up to your head without difficulty so as to put on a hat.
6. Due to lack of manual dexterity you cannot, with one hand, pick up a coin which is not more than 2.5 centimetres in diameter.
7. You are not able to use your hands or arms to pick up a full jug of 1 litre capacity and pour from it into a cup, without difficulty.
8. You can turn neither of your hands sideways through 180 degrees.
9. You are registered as blind or registered as partially sighted in a register compiled by a local authority.
10. You cannot see to read 16 point print at a distance greater than 20 centimetres, if appropriate, wearing the glasses you normally use.
11. You cannot hear a telephone ring when you are in the same room as the telephone, if appropriate, using a hearing aid you normally use.
12. In a quiet room you have difficulty in hearing what someone talking in a loud voice at a distance of 2 metres says, if appropriate, using a hearing aid you normally use.
13. People who know you well have difficulty in understanding what you say.
14. When a person you know well speaks to you, you have difficulty in understanding what that person says.
15. At least once a year during waking hours you are in a coma or have a fit in which you lose consciousness.
16. You have a mental illness for which you receive regular treatment under the supervision of a medically qualified person.
17. Due to mental disability you are often confused or forgetful.
18. You cannot do the simplest addition and subtraction.
19. Due to mental disability you strike people or damage property or are unable to form normal social relationships.
20. You cannot normally sustain an 8 hour working day or a 5 day working week due to a medical condition or intermittent or continuous severe pain.

Part2
21. As a result of an illness or accident you are undergoing a period of habilitation or rehabilitation.

HM Revenue and Customs may ask you to nominate a professional involved in your care who can confirm how your disability affects you - for example, an occupational therapist, community or district nurse or doctor."

This is from an HMRC helpsheet:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/534178/TC956_04_16_1.0.pdf

"Qualifying benefit conditions -
Incapacity Benefit
You get Incapacity Benefit at the lower rate short-term. You meet this condition if all the following apply:
• you’ve been getting this benefit for 140 days or more, with the last day of
receipt falling within the 56 days before you claimed the disability element of
Working Tax Credit (see Note 2 on page 8)
• your disability is likely to last for at least 6 months or the rest of your life
• your gross earnings are at least 20% less than they were before the disability
began, with a minimum reduction of £15 (gross) a week
You get Incapacity Benefit at the higher rate short-term or long-term rate. To meet
this condition you need to:
• have been getting this benefit for at least one of the 182 days before you claimed
the disability element of Working Tax Credit
• have been training for work for at least one day in the 56 days before you claimed
the disability element of Working Tax Credit and within 56 days before the first day
of that period of training for work, you got this benefit"

I can nothing that indicates that if you have qualified by receiving IB before starting the job eligibility for the disabled element of tax credits is time limited, You may wish to ask the CAB to check this with their specialist support unit (if they haven't already).

I can only suggest you work with the CAB, and challenge the both the HMRC decision to withdraw the disability element and the overpayment. Some info here on this:
http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/survival-guide-dealing-tax-credit-overpayments
http://revenuebenefits.org.uk/tax-credits/guidance/how-to-deal-with-hmrc/challenging-overpayments/
http://www.which.co.uk/money/tax/tax-credits-and-benefits/guides/tax-credits/tax-credit-overpayments
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/working-and-child-tax-credits/tax-credits-appeals/challenging-a-working-tax-credit-or-child-tax-credit-decision/

HMRC can be very difficult to deal with, and often don't even respond to CAB letters. If this occurs, then it may be worth involving your MP (as MP's have a direct line in at a higher level within HMRC), I would suggest asking the CAB about the most appropriate time in the process to approach your MP.
If HMRC don't adhere to their code of practice 26 - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/509048/COP26.pdf
- you may wish to raise a compliant. (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/complain-to-hm-revenue-and-customs).

aggietrac

Hi guys, thank you so mch for your help. I do satisfy conditions 1,2 and 3, they stopped the disability element from the 18th January and backdated it over 2 years. I can't understand how they can do this as nothing has changed in my situation. I also can't see that the IB clause is time limited. CAB agree with me on this and there's not really much they can do until I hear back after asking for a reconsideration. I spoke with the Tax credits office earlier and the girl said I should hear by the 21st March. Meanwhile I'm penniless, my wages come in one hand and out with the other! CAB have been giving me foodbank vouchers which I find so embarrassing. I'm just so stressed out my all this, and i'm awake nearly all night. I'm off work at the moment as my disability is pretty bad at the moment and I can't do much, I'm waiting to see the neurologist. I have put in a claim for PIP but since getting a text from them to say they'd received my paperwork back I haven't heard anything. Its been about 3 weeks bt from what I can gather some people have waited months!

shanmoo

aggietrac, i am in same situation as yourself. my tax credits were stopped suddenly in september 2015, i had been in receipt of the disability element and they stopped my money due to the change in the law, however they had done nothing to contact me, they only stopped it because i had put in an application for PIP on the advice of the DWP. they dealt with it as if i had defrauded them, as i had failed to inform them that i was "no longer entitled to PIP" but i hadnt qualified for PIP, as you know the tests were completely different. my file got sent straight to debt collectors who are harassing me and wont wait for the complaint to be resolved. hmrc say they sent me a form which they didnt, i never got it, also in the letters hmrc referred to a form which is deleted, they cant even get their responses correct, what else have they done wrong. i have friends who work in tax credits they were never trained on the changes that came in april 2015, so loads of people kept receiving money they werent entitled to, even though hmrc ought to have suspended all claims where they didnt have proof of the qualifying condtions. they basically allowed me to receive payments for 5 months, and indeed during this time i was in a dispute with them over something else, where my mp was involved, and they mentioned this possiblity neither to my mp nor to myself. i think its disgusting! they have refused my complaint and sent it straight back to the debt collectors who want it all paid back yesterday and "take no prisoners".

Icequeen99

shanmoo wrote: »

aggietrac, i am in same situation as yourself. my tax credits were stopped suddenly in september 2015, i had been in receipt of the disability element and they stopped my money due to the change in the law, however they had done nothing to contact me, they only stopped it because i had put in an application for PIP on the advice of the DWP. they dealt with it as if i had defrauded them, as i had failed to inform them that i was "no longer entitled to PIP" but i hadnt qualified for PIP, as you know the tests were completely different. my file got sent straight to debt collectors who are harassing me and wont wait for the complaint to be resolved. hmrc say they sent me a form which they didnt, i never got it, also in the letters hmrc referred to a form which is deleted, they cant even get their responses correct, what else have they done wrong. i have friends who work in tax credits they were never trained on the changes that came in april 2015, so loads of people kept receiving money they werent entitled to, even though hmrc ought to have suspended all claims where they didnt have proof of the qualifying condtions. they basically allowed me to receive payments for 5 months, and indeed during this time i was in a dispute with them over something else, where my mp was involved, and they mentioned this possiblity neither to my mp nor to myself. i think its disgusting! they have refused my complaint and sent it straight back to the debt collectors who want it all paid back yesterday and "take no prisoners".

What changes in April 2015 are you talking about? There weren't any changes to the disability element if you qualified by a different route. How did you qualify for it originally if it wasn't via DLA or PIP?

You really needed to have appealed the decision at the time it was made, you are most likely out of time now.

IQ

Alice_Holt

DS and / or IQ,

If the qualifying benefit is IB (per the OP), and you then apply successfully for PIP (another qualifying benefit as long as you remain in receipt of PIP), what happens if the PIP claim is subsequently disallowed on renewal?

Would you-
a) stop receiving the disabled element of Tax Credits because you are no longer in receipt of PIP,
or b) would it continue because the original qualifier was the IB claim (and that qualification has not been replaced by a PIP award qualification)?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Darksparkle

In my opinion you'd still qualify under IB.

My understanding is that it would only stop if you stopped meeting the criteria for WTC and didn't qualify again within 56days.

Icequeen99

Darksparkle wrote: »

In my opinion you'd still qualify under IB.

My understanding is that it would only stop if you stopped meeting the criteria for WTC and didn't qualify again within 56days.

My understanding is that it would only stop if you stopped meeting the criteria for WTC and didn't qualify again within 56days.[/QUOTE]

I agree with DS's conclusion but wouldn't say the later qualification is because of IB. So initially the person qualifies because they meet Case A definition in the regulations which is that for at least one day in the previous 182 they were in receipt of (let's say) long term IB.

But once that 182 days passes, ongoing qualification is under Case G - which says you qualify if you were entitled to the disability element of WTC for least 1 day in the previous 56 (as long as at some earlier time Case A, B, E or F applied - basically this excludes PIP, DLA, AA etc from this particular qualification route)

So after the initial qualification due to IB, the ongoing qualification benefit is the disability element of WTC itself.

The issues i have with this case are - where did HMRC get the power to go back 2 years. It would be rare for an investigation as part of the renewal process to happen in January, but if it was a section 16 investigation they could only go back to April 16 - not to April 15.

aggietrac

Hi all, a quick update on my situation. I got my local MP involved and they contacted tax credits to speed things along. I've just had a call from Tax Credits and they have reinstated my disability element and backdating to January. I had managed to get a letter to them confirming my Incapacity Benefit claim prior to starting work from the Jobcentre archives, which they had been unable to get hold of apparently, and now that they have this I don't need to do anything when renewing my claim. I can't tell you all what a relief this is. They will be making a payment to me on Monday. Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it