MSE Switching Calc Confusion

edited 28 February 2017 at 6:46PM in Energy
15 replies 1.2K views
EdwardBEdwardB Forumite
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edited 28 February 2017 at 6:46PM in Energy

I did a price comparison via this site this morning and the numbers do not seem to add up.

Hurrah!
You can save £102 a year by switching to the top dual fuel deal.

So how did they get to £102 from numbers below?

Things do not seem to add up and what sticks out is

"Based on the usage figures you gave us, this is the estimated cost you'll pay for the next year."
Average UK usage Based on your usage
Assumed annual consumption 3100 kWh 1148 kWh
Estimated annual cost £523 £206
Tariff comparison rate 16.86p per kWh 17.93p per kWh

Are they saying my provider is going to increase my Standard rate by 28% to 17.93 ??

Gas "based on" is a more reasonable 8.59% but numbers still do not add up.

Based on the usage figures you gave us, this is the estimated cost you'll pay for the next year.
Average UK usage Based on your usage
Assumed annual consumption 12500 kWh 4108 kWh
Estimated annual cost £484 £172
Tariff comparison rate 3.87p per kWh 4.19p per kWh

So I stuck all the numbers in a spreadsheet and these are [FONT=&quot]figures [/FONT]I came up with.

Km865Fg.png

These are the numbers they say their quote is based on so where did they get the £102 from.

GAS

Tariff type Fixed
Payment Method Quarterly Cash or Cheque
Unit rate 3.715p per kWh
Standing charge 8.222p per day
Tariff ends on 31 Mar 2018
Price guaranteed until 31 Mar 2018
Exit fees (if you cancel this tariff before the end date) £30

Discounts Per fuel - Annual Dual Fuel discount £5.25.
Per year (Inc VAT) Online Discount £5.25.
Additional products or services included None

Based on the usage figures you gave us, this is the estimated cost you'll pay for the next year.
Average UK usage Based on your usage
Assumed annual consumption 12500 kWh 4108 kWh
Estimated annual cost £484 £172
Tariff comparison rate 3.87p per kWh 4.19p per kWh

ELECTRICITY
Tariff type Fixed
Payment Method Quarterly Cash or Cheque
Unit rate 16.230p per kWh
Standing charge 8.222p per day
Tariff ends on 31 Mar 2018
Price guaranteed until 31 Mar 2018

Exit fees (if you cancel this tariff before the end date) £30

Discounts Per fuel - Annual Dual Fuel discount £5.25. Per year (Inc VAT) Online Discount £5.25.

Additional products or services included None

Illustrative electricity cost on this tariff

"Based on the usage figures you gave us, this is the estimated cost you'll pay for the next year."

Average UK usage Based on your usage
Assumed annual consumption 3100 kWh 1148 kWh
Estimated annual cost £523 £206
Tariff comparison rate 16.86p per kWh 17.93p
per kWh
Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue. :cool::)
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Replies

  • edited 28 February 2017 at 5:53PM
    SystemSystem Forumite
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    edited 28 February 2017 at 5:53PM
    Please don't use large coloured fonts: it hurts old eyes.

    All Ofgem-accredited PCWs are required to use a savings methodology that can result in a saving even though the new tariff costs more. It is only incorrect for consumers on fixed tariffs with less than 12 months to run.

    MSE CEC also shows a simple 'what you are paying now' and 'what will pay on this tariff' comparison.

    PS. Electricity has increased by c20% because of a massive increase in social and economic costs; wholesale costs and the fall in the £.
  • EdwardBEdwardB Forumite
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    Thanks for your reply, sorry about previous font was a copy and paste thing, I have edited it out now.

    Nothing you say explains how they got to the total.

    Surely it stands to reason that if they are going to quote the numbers it is based on then the numbers should be able to be replicated by consumers.

    I put these numbers in and I compared their quoted numbers

    I am going to go to Uswitch and see if it does the same thing.
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue. :cool::)
  • maisie_catmaisie_cat Forumite
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    My total spend with the new supplier was out by £90 when I switched although my old supplier was out by £50 so net £40. I used my multi year spreadsheet to calculate it. I think its the solar etc that confuses it, we use virtually nothing in the summer so the entire charge is standing charge and the fixed vs variable split does make a difference with the comparisons.
  • edited 28 February 2017 at 6:59PM
    EdwardBEdwardB Forumite
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    edited 28 February 2017 at 6:59PM
    Hengus wrote: »
    Please don't use large coloured fonts: it hurts old eyes.
    All Ofgem-accredited PCWs are required to use a savings methodology that can result in a saving even though the new tariff costs more. It is only incorrect for consumers on fixed tariffs with less than 12 months to run.

    I got that, I worked out that I can use 23% more energy before it costs me more than I was paying.
    Hengus wrote: »
    MSE CEC also shows a simple 'what you are paying now' and 'what will pay on this tariff' comparison.

    Well surely it should say here is the rate we are promising you, here are the discounts and the numbers should add up when I repeat the maths in a spreadsheet (assuming I made no errors)?

    If I use the "based on" numbers it still does not get to the total saved.
    Hengus wrote: »
    PS. Electricity has increased by c20% because of a massive increase in social and economic costs; wholesale costs and the fall in the £.

    Mine has not increased yet but I am sure it will, I do not know about all these costs, they seem to just want us to pay for their gambling on commodities market. Either way, I do not care what the numbers are as long as they quote them and as long as they match.
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue. :cool::)
  • SystemSystem Forumite
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    Your calculation is somewhat convoluted as it shows both the standard and individual usage figures.

    For a consumer on a fixed tariff with less than 12 months to run, the cost for the next 12 months is months left on your present tariff plus 12 - months left on standard variable tariff. This results in an increased cost.

    Your new tariff will likely be higher than your present tariff; however, the inflated cost minus the cost of the new tariff equals a saving. Unless you can be bothered to look at the SVR and factor that into your spreadsheet, then your calculations will be flawed. I just ignore all savings, and do a simple year now compared to a year on the new tariff comparison. MSE CEC does this for you. Most PCWs just follow the Ofgem policy.
  • EdwardBEdwardB Forumite
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    Hengus wrote: »
    Your calculation is somewhat convoluted as it shows both the standard and individual usage figures.

    I am just multiplying the annual units by the rate

    Current Gas 4108 x 0.0383 = £157.34
    Offered Gas 4108 x 0.03715 = £152.61
    Curremt Elec 1148 x 0.1282 = £147.17
    Offered Elec 1148 x 0.1623 = £186.32
    Current Stand Rate 0.261 x 365 = £95.27
    Offered Stand Rate 0.08222 x 365 = £30.01

    The idea was to show the break down of how the totals were got to, none result in the saving they quoted.

    Hengus wrote: »
    For a consumer on a fixed tariff with less than 12 months to run, the cost for the next 12 months is months left on your present tariff plus 12 - months left on standard variable tariff. This results in an increased cost.

    I am NOT on a fixed tariff I am on a standard tariff, it is a brand new contract so there will be 12 months (end March 18)
    Hengus wrote: »
    Your new tariff will likely be higher than your present tariff; however, the inflated cost minus the cost of the new tariff equals a saving. Unless you can be bothered to look at the SVR and factor that into your spreadsheet, then your calculations will be flawed. I just ignore all savings, and do a simple year now compared to a year on the new tariff comparison. MSE CEC does this for you. Most PCWs just follow the Ofgem policy.

    I do not know what an SVR or a PCW or a CEC is?

    What I DO know is that my spreadsheet tries to use all the numbers they say they based it on.

    YES I can see if they try to suggest that their figures are "BASED ON" £0.1793 it is going to look as if they are saving me money even though my current bill says £0.1282, that is part of the reason I put up this thread! That and the fact that £0.1793 is an increase of over 28% when the highest quote on the MSE website is 15% for electricity price hike.


    "Three of the big six energy firms have now announced price hikes from spring, with EDF, Npower Scottish Power to increase standard dual fuel prices next month.

    EDF said in December 2016 it was hiking the costs of its electricity prices by 8.4% in March, while reducing gas prices by 5.2% from January. All-in, from March that equates to a 1.2% hike if you've both.


    Npower has announced earlier this month that it'll raise its gas prices by 4.8%, while electricity will jump by a massive 15% – a 9.8% hike on average to its standard duel fuel tariff from March, which could see typical bills rise by £109.


    Now, Scottish Power have said its prices will go up by 7.8% from 31 March, including a 4.7% increase to its gas prices and a 10.8% rise in electricity.


    However, British Gas has promised to freeze its prices until August, while SSE and E.on have said there will be no price hikes until the end of March. But, if you're on a standard tariff with any of these companies whether they've frozen prices or not, it's likely you're still massively overpaying."


    Funny how no deals going to British Gas were offered when their prices are frozen. You would think that MSE would approach British Gas for a deal.

    I do not seem to be massively overpaying, I am not getting discount for paperless bill or direct debit which would more than half my standing charge.

    All I want it the numbers to add up, even if they use these fake 28% increases.

    MSE should be acting for consumers to stop these increased, OFGEM said in late January there was no reason to increase them #Toothless and #Useless
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue. :cool::)
  • EdwardBEdwardB Forumite
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    I think it is the VAT, can't see any mention of VAT in MSE breakdown but my rates are definately net of vat while my standing charge seems to include it.
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue. :cool::)
  • SystemSystem Forumite
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    All PCWs include VAT in the unit price and standing charges whereas suppliers' sites - such as Iresa - may not. That said, I have always found that the total annual cost is the same.
  • EdwardBEdwardB Forumite
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    Can you please clarify what SVR or a PCW or a CEC are?

    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue. :cool::)
  • SystemSystem Forumite
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    EdwardB wrote: »
    Can you please clarify what SVR or a PCW or a CEC are?


    SVR - standard variable rate (Usually, the supplier's most expensive tariff)

    PCW - Price Comparison Website such as MSE Cheap Energy Club

    MSE - MoneySavingExpert
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