Whistle & Clicker training.

WantToBeSE

Hello. I'm bringing my new Cavalier puppy home in mid-April, so am doing some research on training.
I don't want her jumping through hoops or doing tricks, i am just training her to behave well and also attempting recall.

From what i can see, there are 2 main ways of training; clicker and whistle.
Apparently whistle is best for recall and clicker is best for behaviour.

I have a few questions-Can i use both clicker and whistle?
So when we are out and she is off the lead, i could use whistle (followed by fuss and a treat) and when we are at home and I've asked to to sit/stay/give me her paw, i use a clicker and a treat and fuss.

Is this the correct/suitable way?

Any other tips and advice on training would be really appreciated too.

Katiehound

With the clicker you have to be very quick off the mark otherwise you might in fact be rewarding the wrong behaviour!
Say for example your dog has briefly sat down and then stands up if the click isn't before the stand you aren't rewarding the sit at all!!

You could mark the behaviour with a quickly spoken "Good" and then immediately reward with a treat. That acts like a verbal click.
I am sure someone will come along with an internet link to clicker training for you.

With training try not to repeat your instructions.
One word, one action.
A friend's dog only sits on "sit sit!"
Also keep one word for each action- 'down' is the classic one. Do you mean 'Lay down' or do you mean 'stop jumping up, get down??" I call the second action 'Off'

You want to be the most exciting thing in her life so lots of happy baby type talk!!
For recall call her to you, treat, touch the collar, let her go- only sometimes put her on the lead- that keeps her guessing. Start recall indoors maybe, then outside on a long lead with her at the fullest extent so that she will come (no other chance)- you can reel her in!

I would strongly recommend taking her to puppy training. Go along first and see if you like what is happening- if not, find another.
You say you don't want to do tricks etc but you might find you have a dog who would really love it! If the weather is horrid you can exercise a dog with tricks and brain games. I had one dog who just loved jumping through hoops and into my arms

Treats need to be high grade- I remember one trainer asking 'Would you work for a penny??' So I tend to use dried liver, homemade sardine flapjack or cubes of cheese. Don't use anything that you would use for general feeding, and they only need to be small pieces.

I used to use a whistle. At first I would blow the whistle just before feeding so that my hounds associated whistle with food. Eventually then when we were on the beach they knew that the whistle meant a yummy treat and would come flying back

Hope some of that helps

Have lots of fun with your new friend. Hard work to start I know but then... the dog world is your oyster!

WantToBeSE

Thanks Katiehound, i really appreciate that advice, you have helped me understand the importance of immediate clicking. If i do use clicker training, I'll definitely remember that.
And the 1 word is another great tip, i like that idea.

The whistle recall is my main focus to start with, as i want her to be able to (eventually) go off lead and come when called/whistled.

Yes i am definitely going to be taking her to puppy training classes, for socialisation if nothing else.

krlyr

A clicker should not be a cue for a behaviour, but rather a marker to mark the behaviour you want to reinforce at the very moment it occurs.

So dog sits down, you click as it has sat, you have marked the sit. Even if it takes 5 or 10 seconds to fumble in your pocket for a treat, the point is, you marked the sit so the dog knows that's what it is getting the reward for - not standing up 2 seconds later, or jumping up at your leg for its treat.

However, this does require you to "prime" the clicker beforehand - you click, you give a treat, you click, you give a treat. Dog learns that click = good, and this is why it works to mark that behaviour in the future. The more tricks and behaviours you train with the clicker, the more it will reinforce that the click is the market, not any other reaction.

You could replace a clicker with another cue - some people use a "bridge word" (i.e. bridging that gap between the desired behaviour and the reinforcement treat/toy/fuss) like good, yes, bingo, some people may 'cluck' their tongue, some may click the end of a retractable pen, some people even use visual markers like a torch flash (especially for deaf dogs). Anything can be used to create that association, but it's ideally something that can be kept consistant - so a clicker produces a consistant noise at a consistant volume. I personally have moved from a clicker to the word 'yes', as it saves worrying about carrying a clicker around plus no need to faff if my hands are full (two big dogs), but you do need to make sure it's not a word you say around the dogs much or it will lose its meaning.

A whistle, however, is a cue for recall. It replaces you calling the dog - it has some benefits, such as the sound travelling better, not portraying any emotions (e.g. you're angry as pup is failing to recall, you call its name in a frustrated tone, it recognises that you're frustrated or angry and decides not to recall incase it's in trouble), and so on.

You need to teach the dog to recall, either with the whistle from the start or introduce it as the cue later, but the whistle does not predict the reward - you could still use your clicker whilst whistle training (blow whistle - dog recalls - you click to mark recall - give a treat)

Kikopup is absolutely fantastic in terms of clicker training, she'll have videos on the basics as well as the more complicated stuff so I would highly recommend her channel. http://www.youtube.com/kikopup

WantToBeSE

krlyr wrote: »

A clicker should not be a cue for a behaviour, but rather a marker to mark the behaviour you want to reinforce at the very moment it occurs.

Sorry, yes that is what i meant.

krlyr wrote: »

So dog sits down, you click as it has sat, you have marked the sit. Even if it takes 5 or 10 seconds to fumble in your pocket for a treat, the point is, you marked the sit so the dog knows that's what it is getting the reward for - not standing up 2 seconds later, or jumping up at your leg for its treat.

However, this does require you to "prime" the clicker beforehand - you click, you give a treat, you click, you give a treat. Dog learns that click = good, and this is why it works to mark that behaviour in the future. The more tricks and behaviours you train with the clicker, the more it will reinforce that the click is the market, not any other reaction.

You could replace a clicker with another cue - some people use a "bridge word" (i.e. bridging that gap between the desired behaviour and the reinforcement treat/toy/fuss) like good, yes, bingo, some people may 'cluck' their tongue, some may click the end of a retractable pen, some people even use visual markers like a torch flash (especially for deaf dogs). Anything can be used to create that association, but it's ideally something that can be kept consistant - so a clicker produces a consistant noise at a consistant volume. I personally have moved from a clicker to the word 'yes', as it saves worrying about carrying a clicker around plus no need to faff if my hands are full (two big dogs), but you do need to make sure it's not a word you say around the dogs much or it will lose its meaning.

Ah yes, i hadnt thought about the necessity of carrying a clicker with me constantly. Maybe a word is a better idea, so i dont have to worry about keeping it with me at all times. Thanks.

krlyr wrote: »

A whistle, however, is a cue for recall. It replaces you calling the dog - it has some benefits, such as the sound travelling better, not portraying any emotions (e.g. you're angry as pup is failing to recall, you call its name in a frustrated tone, it recognises that you're frustrated or angry and decides not to recall incase it's in trouble), and so on.

You need to teach the dog to recall, either with the whistle from the start or introduce it as the cue later, but the whistle does not predict the reward - you could still use your clicker whilst whistle training (blow whistle - dog recalls - you click to mark recall - give a treat)

Kikopup is absolutely fantastic in terms of clicker training, she'll have videos on the basics as well as the more complicated stuff so I would highly recommend her channel. http://www.youtube.com/kikopup

Thanks for such great advice Krlyr, i appreciate it. You've given me lots to think about. I'll definitely look at that channel.
What you describe-whistle-recall-click-treat is exactly what i had in mind, so glad to hear that would work

adandem

A whistle for recall is fantastic, we used one with our dog. We started using it in the home and garden to begin with, we let him off at a very young age and never had any real issues. But when you have built up a good bond with your dog, they will want to come to you. We used a clicker too but not as our only training method, regular short sessions are best for your dog. It will really help you bond and also give your dog mental stimulation.

WantToBeSE

adandem wrote: »

A whistle for recall is fantastic, we used one with our dog. We started using it in the home and garden to begin with, we let him off at a very young age and never had any real issues. But when you have built up a good bond with your dog, they will want to come to you. We used a clicker too but not as our only training method, regular short sessions are best for your dog. It will really help you bond and also give your dog mental stimulation.

Thanks Adandem, glad to hear it works well for you.

Another question, i was looking online and chatting to another dog owner and they said that if i always blow a whistle when i feed the dog, she will associate the whistle with food and make recall much easier. Is that the general method that people always use? It seems like a great idea to me, but i want to be aware of any downsides to this.

Also, she will be 9 weeks old when we bring her home, is it OK to start this clicker and whistle training as soon as she arrives, or do i have to wait until she is older?

elsien

With the clicker (or any) training, you need to move/delay the treats over time. So instant treat from pocket when behaviour is first being learned, with a longer delay and treats on the side/elsewhere when you're reinforcing it. And when the behaviour is learned and you're reinforcing it, they get a good boy/pat if it's only ok, but jackpot the extra treats when they do a really good version.
What you want to avoid is a dog that only does as it's told when you're waving chicken in its face. They need to learn to earn the good stuff.
You might want to consider puppy classes to a) socialise your dog and b) learn the clicker basics properly. It's easy to get wrong - I just accidentally taught Gitdog to target my coal scuttle when he was meant to be doing something entirely different!

ETA - with training you need to use whatever motivates your dog as a reward. Some are food oriented, with others it's toys. It does depend on your dog.

WantToBeSE

elsien wrote: »

With the clicker (or any) training, you need to move/delay the treats over time. So instant treat from pocket when behaviour is first being learned, with a longer delay and treats on the side/elsewhere when you're reinforcing it. And when the behaviour is learned and you're reinforcing it, they get a good boy/pat if it's only ok, but jackpot the extra treats when they do a really good version.
What you want to avoid is a dog that only does as it's told when you're waving chicken in its face. They need to learn to earn the good stuff.
You might want to consider puppy classes to a) socialise your dog and b) learn the clicker basics properly. It's easy to get wrong - I just accidentally taught Gitdog to target my coal scuttle when he was meant to be doing something entirely different!

ETA - with training you need to use whatever motivates your dog as a reward. Some are food oriented, with others it's toys. It does depend on your dog.

Thanks for the tips elsien, I plan to start puppy training classes as soon as she has had her vacs and i can find a class.
It'll be a learning experience for her and me, so i'll definitely benefit from learning the correct way to train her.

elsien

Forgot to say as well, keep sessions short and finish on a positive. It's tempting when things are going well to keep going but then they can get bored and demotivated. Finish on a high note with lots of praise if you can.

And photos are obligatory.

WantToBeSE

Ah, i have a few photos from the breeder but dont know how to add them!