court case

jess12345

Not sure if this is the right section to post. To cut a long story short. Brother has admitted to taking money from a bank account belonging to our late father, whilst father was an invalid. He is now saying he got the card and pin number from our now late mother and as she was his wife she could take the money from his sole bank account. He admits he drove mother to the ATM his words (acting as chauffeur). He has managed to take around £25,000 over a period of time. My accountant has made graphs of the withdrawals from 4 bank accounts and deposits into brothers accounts, the similarities smack you in the face! He even took money out of the account the day after dad died! None of this was noticed until I became Power of Attorney for dads affairs. I immediately sought legal advice. I did inform the police but as I had already started legal proceedings they wouldn't do anything. Both parties have now filed their skeleton arguments. I have a barrister he is representing himself. His argument is he had the card holders permission, no way, he hated dad and dad hated him! If he had permission surely dad would have given him POA. In his defence he is saying he had mothers permission to take the money from dads account because she as his wife could use his card and number. Dad never gave anyone these details, when he was hospitalised they found his wallet with the card in. Mum knew the pin number as it was dads birthdate as was her card her birthdate. My brother is bitter because dad left me some money and not him. I have asked if he would mediate and try and sort this without going to court (as advised by my solicitor) but he refuses and ignores my solicitor letters. Does anyone rate his chances of winning in court?

EssexExile

I think this is a question for your barrister, not a bunch of people on a forum who don't know half the facts.

Silvertabby

EssexExile is right - but I'll just chip in with the thought that if this does go to court then your legal fees may be as much as the money taken.

Zanderman

jess12345 wrote: »

...he got the card and pin number from our now late mother and as she was his wife she could take the money from his sole bank account....
....he is saying he had mothers permission to take the money from dads account because she as his wife could use his card and number....

If you have a barrister, take their advice, not advice from here!

But, for what it's worth, my understanding is that only the account holder can withdraw money from a sole account.
Being being married to the cardholder doesn't change that.
So if his wife was accessing the account she was acting in breach of the sole account holder's obligations under the bank's T&C.
And she certainly could not give yet another person permission.
It would seem likely, if my understanding is correct, that this access was in breach of the accounts T&C and is, arguably, fraudulent.
But surely your barrister can advise on this far better?

Keep_pedalling

Does you brother have enough assets to repay the money back into your father's estate?

If not this could prove to be a very unstisfying and expensive exercise.

EarthBoy

Nobody can legitimately give another person permission to access their sole bank account not even their husband or wife; it's a direct contravention of the bank's terms and conditions, so your mother shouldn't have had access to your dad's account herself, and she certainly couldn't give your brother permission to access it. Whether it's actually a criminal offence though, I couldn't say.

jess12345

Thanks folks. Yes he does have enough assets to repay.

mt99

i am no expert and i maybe wrong but i thought you could give a third party access to your account by notifying the bank and telling them what this third party can and cannot do. So your father could have given him access permission I'm not saying he did but the facility is certainly there.

mt99

Just checked and yes you can give someone authority to manage your bank account including paying bills, withdrawing cash etc etc. Your dad would have needed to sign a third party mandate specifying his desires ie that his wife, son or whoever ca do that.

mt99

Oh and his wife cant give the permission on behalf of your dad only the account holder can give the permisson !

eddddy

Just to clarify...

If father gives mother consent to use the card and PIN at an ATM - and the mother does so - nobody has committed a criminal offence, and no basis for claiming money back.

However, father has breached contract with the bank. (So the bank might close account etc)

Mother has no contract with the bank - so breach of contract by mother is not possible.

Similarly...

If father gives brother consent to use the card and PIN at an ATM - and the brother does so - nobody has committed a criminal offence, and no basis for claiming money back.

If father said to mother "Let brother use the card as well" - and the brother does so - nobody has committed a criminal offence, and no basis for claiming money back.

However, father has breached contract with the bank. (So the bank might close account etc)

Brother has no contract with the bank - so breach of contract by brother is not possible.

But...

If either mother or brother use the card and PIN at ATM without fathers consent, they are committing theft - a criminal offence, and there is a basis for claiming money back.

So the case entirely boils down to whether the father gave consent.