Car accident - was it my fault?

Aylesbury_Duck

I'm another that thinks this'll go 50:50, unless the other driver plays it craftily. The other party clearly used the wrong route around the roundabout, but I agree with those that think that the OP is at fault for driving into the other car. The OP made an incorrect assumption about the the other driver's intentions and tried to exit the roundabout anyway. I am sceptical about the OP's innocence because why exit into the outside lane of the exit if not in an attempt to "beat" the other driver in the indignation at their driving?

If the other driver is crafty (and has perhaps read this post), her account will be that she entered the roundabout from the previous exit (12 o'clock in the picture), having seen the OP on the inside of the roundabout indicating right, and was intending to head straight across in the outer lane when the OP suddenly took the next exit. She might be guilty of entering a roundabout when it wasn't entirely clear, but it's a better account than "I got into entirely the wrong lane to perform a u-turn".

reeac

Using the OPs logic it would be quite reasonable to collide with a car illegally parked on a double yellow line because it shouldn't have been there. No need to avoid it.

Marvel1

In future I now know it's safe to use the outside of the roundabout when going all the around, thank you.

photome

cjdavies wrote: »

In future I now know it's safe to use the outside of the roundabout when going all the around, thank you.

Except of course , it wasn't safe

Retrogamer

cjdavies wrote: »

In future I now know it's safe to use the outside of the roundabout when going all the around, thank you.

It would be much safer to use the correct lane in case someone tries to cut across your lane when they want to exit and collides with you.

unholyangel

laurencecockayne wrote: »

Its starting to feel that way!

I was not overtaking this lady, some people seem to be implying that i am trying to. I was alongside her, a position i am completely entitled to be in. I was not moving faster than her.

The positioning of both our our vehicles indicates that both cars should have exited the roundabout, with her taking the left hand lane of the DC and myself taking the right hand lane of the DC. This is, with no shadow of a doubt, the event that should have occurred.

You can't sit in the outside lane of a 2 lane roundabout and just drive across the front of all the exits to the roundabout. Which is what she did.

You can if you're a cyclist - or rather if you're a cyclist and choose to ride around the roundabout (rather than dismounting and walking across) you're supposed to stay in the left hand lane and signal to let drivers know you intend to continue around. Of course many cyclists don't do this and try to use the roundabout as if they're a car. Likewise, some car drivers like to use roundabouts as if they were a cyclist. In both instances they're not using the roundabout according to how they should be.

I really don't know what all the arguing is about though to me its pretty clear OP does share blame. A simple rule of the road is that traffic already in the lane/road has priority over any other vehicle looking to enter or cross into that lane/road (regardless if their exit is coming up or not).

Seems like too many people on roundabouts don't realise that or they mistakenly think that because they've indicated, they now have priority and can move where they like.

Even if the insurance do place fault on the other party, your premiums can increase because statistically you likely contributed to that accident (even if you werent strictly at fault) and will go on to have another accident (where you are at fault) in the future.

laurencecockayne

Thanks for all your responses, we'll see how it goes with the insurance.

That above drawing is exactly what happened. To a tee. Thanks for knocking it up and saving me the hassle!

Just to respond to a couple of points...

"I am sceptical about the OP's innocence because why exit into the outside lane of the exit if not in an attempt to "beat" the other driver in the indignation at their driving?"

What a presumptuous statement. So just because i was using an outside lane i'm guilty of reckless driving. Yeah alright. Just to let you know, the next roundabout a hundred meters along or so is 2 lanes and i go right at that one too, so exiting into the right hand lane puts me in the correct lane for the next roundabout. That is why i was there.

I agree there was an assumption made on my part, but at some point with all driving, you HAVE to make assumptions. Every time you drive past a t-junction you assume the driver won't pull out. If they do = frontal damage.

As the roundabout is laid out, you HAVE to cross the left lane to exit the roundabout, its a 2 lane flow from beginning to end. Entrance, roundabout and exit are all two lanes. Using this system i didn't actually leave my lane, but according to the road markings i have. But i had a right to do so, the other driver had no right to maneuver how she did. We'll have to see how the insurers see it. Ultimately, who CAUSED the accident?

As for staying more clear of her, in hindsight i should have, and hindsight is a wonderful thing. I remember when she didn't take the left or straight on exit thinking 'bloody hell she's in the wrong lane for going right!' and then before i knew it she had cut across the front of the exit.

1 month away from my 5th year no claims bonus so i could get them protected, no accidents in 14 years (lost NCD when i didn't have my own policy for a couple of years). Bad timing!

Thanks again for everyone's observations. I'll let you know how it goes.

lister

laurencecockayne wrote: »

I agree there was an assumption made on my part, but at some point with all driving, you HAVE to make assumptions. Every time you drive past a t-junction you assume the driver won't pull out. If they do = frontal damage.

That is exactly what I don't assume every time I go past a minor road where a car is waiting. So I watch to ensure they are stopping or remaining stationary. I watch to ensure they are looking at me. I might adjust my position or speed to be able to cope with the unwise action I assume they may make. I will assess my escape routes and base my actions on what is available.

But i had a right to do so, the other driver had no right to maneuver how she did. We'll have to see how the insurers see it. Ultimately, who CAUSED the accident?

You have the right to do it safely. You didn't. They other driver had the right to do it safely providing their entry lane wasn't marked 'TURN LEFT' or 'AHEAD ONLY' which makes them mandatory instructions. They didn't either. The other driver shares a greater part of the culpability in my mind for not proceeding as per HWC guidance - which if you are going to do you should do so with extreme caution.

Again, my assumption at a roundabout is that people will do the wrong thing. I expect it, I monitor their actions, I take defensive actions where necessary. My personal golden rule is if at all possible never have a car alongside (or almost so) you on a roundabout. Not always possible, but you can certainly minimise the time they are alongside you and be extra alert when they are.

Richard53

laurencecockayne wrote: »

I agree there was an assumption made on my part, but at some point with all driving, you HAVE to make assumptions. Every time you drive past a t-junction you assume the driver won't pull out. If they do = frontal damage.

As lister points out above, you hope they won't, but you make plans for how you will be safe if they do. Assumptions are dangerous. Assume nothing.

laurencecockayne wrote: »

As the roundabout is laid out, you HAVE to cross the left lane to exit the roundabout ... i didn't actually leave my lane, but according to the road markings i have.

The two parts I have highlighted are the key to who is to blame here. You admit to crossing her lane. She was incorrectly positioned, but you made the manoeuvre.

laurencecockayne wrote: »

But i had a right to do so, the other driver had no right to maneuver how she did. We'll have to see how the insurers see it.

No one has 'rights' on the road. There is only priority. We all have a duty, however, and that duty is to avoid collisions wherever possible, even if the other driver is 'in the wrong'.

laurencecockayne wrote: »

Ultimately, who CAUSED the accident?

Sorry to say, but you did. I would say the blame was 80% yours. Insurers will probably go 50/50 for convenience. And, for the record, I have been in the situation you describe many times, where people have 'cut across' me to go all the way round a roundabout where I want to turn off. I haven't had an accident so far, mainly because I observe properly and I am prepared to give way and even go round again, if it saves me from being in a collision.


I had some sympathy for your position at the start, but your refusal to accept even a small amount of responsibility for this accident makes it difficult to remain sympathetic.

Retrogamer

laurencecockayne wrote: »

As the roundabout is laid out, you HAVE to cross the left lane to exit the roundabout, its a 2 lane flow from beginning to end. Entrance, roundabout and exit are all two lanes. Using this system i didn't actually leave my lane, but according to the road markings i have.

I don't mean to be cheeky here, but it's concerning you don't understand you did leave your lane. You even said the road markings you did!
It's like a someone disagreeing with a calculator when you put in 1+1 and 2 is the answer.

laurencecockayne wrote: »

But i had a right to do so, the other driver had no right to maneuver how she did..

No you didn't have the right to drive into a lane which already had a car in it.
It's like someone else mentioned. You don't have a right to drive into cars that are parked on double yellow lines

laurencecockayne wrote: »

Ultimately, who CAUSED the accident?
.

Both of you contributed to it in different ways