VCS Parking - CCCF Letter Received - Defence helped needed

Coupon-mad

I am told this is in Marlow. This photo shows where the public road (Fieldhouse Lane) goes along the side of Lunar House:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5734939,-0.7620036,3a,75y,142h,92.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNbJK-nrZ32sjN3Wj1JHTKw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The side roads leading off it, with the block paving, are private roads covered by VCS. Were you parked on Fieldhouse Lane itself? Or beyond the block paving area, on private land?

saarchy

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I am told this is in Marlow. This photo shows where the public road (Fieldhouse Lane) goes along the side of Lunar House:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5734939,-0.7620036,3a,75y,142h,92.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNbJK-nrZ32sjN3Wj1JHTKw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The side roads leading off it, with the block paving, are private roads covered by VCS. Were you parked on Fieldhouse Lane itself? Or beyond the block paving area, on private land?

During my 5 years at the company, I parked on the side road (immediately right on your google maps link) on both sides. Every weekday, there will be cars parked bumper to bumper down this side road and it often extended to the Medina House entrance on the left (3rd left if you head down the road on google maps). You can actually see a few cars parked there in the usual positions, although a lot less than usual.

If you check the Imgur gallery I linked, there's a map of the parking area that Softcat sent out this week. I've edited a 2nd version below with a highlighted blue area that shows the area myself & 50/100 other colleagues would park on daily. Your google maps link would have you standing on the right edge of the blue zone facing south.

According to Softcat, who have spoken with the Highways Agency, the public road actually extends some 50m into this area of the business park, directly alongside Lunar House & Solar House. I'm only focused on the northern most road (highlighted blue) which is where I regularly parked.

It's worth noting that (using your google maps link and moving right 50m to 3rd entrance) cars always park, to this day, on the left side before the entrance on the yellow lines (but not far enough to come close to blocking the entrance) and on the right hand side where you can 2 cars already parked parallel (but again not blocking) the block paved car parking booths. On busy days, there could be 3/5+ more cars parked behind these 2. Important to note that there was always a good 1/2m gap from the edge of the parking bays and the parked cars due to the width of the road.

I apologise if this is a mess to decipher, but hopefully you can better understand the specific area I'm referencing in my case. Does this make sense?

Coupon-mad

Yes, it makes sense and you have very good evidence to call into question VCS' right to ticket cars there. The signs say 'Lunar House Parking' (an offer without caveat, no charges or obligations or contractual terms, nothing about permits being displayed) and there are no VCS signs visible. The one behind the foliage is woeful and as you say, another sign by some bays hasn't been there since early in the year.

Your map evidence makes it clear, and if you could just get a copy of an email from the Highways Agency that would assist you too. The email from the employers is useful.

I reckon you should win, by showing that on the balance of probabilities, because employees cars have always parked there and are still allowed to park there according to the leasehold companies, VCS are outside of what they can show is the land covered within their shady remit.

[Deleted User]

If the curtillage of the property (to use a technical term) takes in the roadway, you will be able to see exactly where it begins and ends by ordering the official copy filed plan from the land registry, like so:

https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/portal/!ut/p/b1/hc5JDoJAEAXQs3CCqh5o2yWYMERBUWTojQE1BFQ0hmjk9II7NWjtKnn_V4GCdKyPuSBCIiSg6uxWFllTnuvs2O9KbBiVnBBOHcnECF3dshkJdYacdSD9AWzyLx9DgnyzquTFezTJrJ3cwqoNaBMGrX_17n61JV6TLHbRcm0aRh7WeQyrfd3l1Ef13DLQZeZ8arOAIoov8H5b0j-g__0FcGAMBN85n_aQdmw01CMjDid1nPHD0rkXmvYEbpoXwA!!/dl4/d5/L0lDU0lKSmdwcGlRb0tVUW9LVVEhL29Gb2dBRUlRaGpFQ1VJZ0FJQUl5RkFNaHdVaFM0SldsYTRvIS80RzNhRDJnanZ5aERVd3BNaFFqVW81Q2pHcHhBL1o3XzMyODQxMTQySDgzNjcwSTVGRzMxVDUzOFY0LzAvMzU5NjM2ODYyMDQ1L3NwZl9BY3Rpb25OYW1lL3NwZl9BY3Rpb25MaXN0ZW5lci9zcGZfc3RydXRzQWN0aW9uLyEyZlFEU2VhcmNoLmRv/

But since it is difficult to prove a negative, it will be for the Claimant to prove that you were on their land/client's land AND that there was an entitlement to ticket. The starting point must be that the roads which are all linked to the main road network in Marlow are public roads or have been adopted as public highway by the local authority.

As Coupon Mad points out all of the various parking requirements (IPC/BPA etc) reference signage at the start of any private land to which parking restrictions apply. This appears to fall foul of that.

Finally do say hello to my mate who runs Coopers Coffee (and cooper dog) if you have cause to grab a coffee at the shop round the corner...

Redx

that was my point earlier, and yes you do have to pay for it, so you add the land registry costs onto your personal costs schedule that you file with the court a few days before the hearing

but I could never have worded my reply like the one above, so thanks for that

saarchy

Thanks for the all the help thus far. I need to submit all my documentation by 2nd August and am looking for any help on finding example/blank court papers that I can use to write it up correctly. Frustratingly, the 'Useful Links & General Info' has links to example documents but the hyperlinks don't seem to work anymore, even after signing up to Imageshack.

I read the below quote from a sticky thread and was hoping someone could please provide me with this?

6) Once you have a court date, get back in contact with the member who prepared the initial defence for you, and they will then supply the full witness statement, skeleton argument and court bundle. We have a number of “standard” paragraphs which apply to almost all PPC defences, but we also need to personalise the statement with particulars about how the ticket was issued, what the PPC is claiming in their POC, whether the ticket was pre or post 1st October 2012, what was on the signage, etc.

I've had a bit more good news on this front in recent days, so looking forward to getting your feedback on my documentation before submitting next week.

Finally do say hello to my mate who runs Coopers Coffee (and cooper dog) if you have cause to grab a coffee at the shop round the corner...

I know the place very well! I grabbed coffee/lunch in there 2/3 times a week ever since it opened.... As did 500 or so of my colleagues!!

[Deleted User]

Assuming you're just starting the defence, prankster has a link to the correct format.

Obviously your case is a bit different, so the contents are likely to be quite different. Precedents should be regarded as a bit of a guide not slavishly followed.

http://www.parking-prankster.com/sample-defence.html

Since parking companies generally have rubbish particulars they won't "set the scene" which is normally the claimant' s job. As such I suggest a couple of paras to describe how the car was parked and how you received the ticket and then the defence arguments proper.

Coupon-mad

You are at witness statement stage - there is no court form, it's a signed statement with your evidence and this is already explained (with examples - you can adapt one) in the NEWBIES thread. This is covered in every defence thread ahead of you, with lots of examples of a WS.

saarchy

Johnersh wrote: »

Assuming you're just starting the defence, prankster has a link to the correct format.

Obviously your case is a bit different, so the contents are likely to be quite different. Precedents should be regarded as a bit of a guide not slavishly followed.

http://www.parking-prankster.com/sample-defence.html

Since parking companies generally have rubbish particulars they won't "set the scene" which is normally the claimant' s job. As such I suggest a couple of paras to describe how the car was parked and how you received the ticket and then the defence arguments proper.

I'm at the Witness Statement stage as Coupon-Mad mentioned. I'm really just looking for a guide document that outlines how to format a Witness Statement correctly, as well as an outlined defence that I can then personalize to my particular defence.

As you said, mine is quite different than a lot of cases, so I intend to rely on physical evidence rather than case law, although I do intend to include relevant cases where it helps my defence.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You are at witness statement stage - there is no court form, it's a signed statement with your evidence and this is already explained (with examples - you can adapt one) in the NEWBIES thread. This is covered in every defence thread ahead of you, with lots of examples of a WS.

The Newbie thread is a great source of information, but it's not the easiest to decipher through and pick out exactly which bits are relevant for my case. In particular, I don't see a Witness Statement guide anywhere other than a brief paragraph in a post from bargepole explaining the first few necessary sentences. I have looked at other people's post, and whilst I did find some Witness Statements i can use as a starter, they are often copied directly into the forum post so lose all necessary formatting.

Is there not a 'Witness Statement' example like there is for the 'Defence Statement' example that Johnersh?

Ryandavis1959

Have you contacted trading standards to tell them this parking firm is operating illegally on this land? Unless they start feeling tugs on their collars they will simply continue to get away with it!!