VCS Parking - CCCF Letter Received - Defence helped needed

saarchy

Johnersh wrote: »

Ok mate, you'll be fine. Just remember to keep it simple. I wouldn't put too much stock in the cancelled tickets. I suspect the court will rather focus on the ones outstanding.

Get a sheet of paper. Do a table. List the tickets then the page reference of C's statement or map that is said to support each one. It'll help you to quickly take the DJ to the relevant evidence and form a view/ dismiss a ticket and move on to the next.

Thanks Johnersh. That's exactly what I did as soon as I spotted this.

So this must be case no. D0QZ924M, before District Judge MacMillan at Nottingham County Court, 10:00am in Hearing Room 12.

Good luck, and do let us have a full blow by blow account afterwards.

Spot on. Curious to know how you've found this though (unless I've mentioned it somewhere previously in which case ignore this)

Umkomaas

Spot on. Curious to know how you've found this though (unless I've mentioned it somewhere previously in which case ignore this)

J's a lawyer. Will have access to such info I guess?

bargepole

saarchy wrote: »

Spot on. Curious to know how you've found this though (unless I've mentioned it somewhere previously in which case ignore this)

I have subscription access to Courtserve, which gives details of all upcoming County Court hearings in England & Wales.

There's only one VCS case listed for Nottingham tomorrow, so it has to be yours.

saarchy

I won! Case was dismissed before I even had the chance to go through any of my documentation. I was then also able to prove that VCS acted 'unreasonably' thanks to your wonderful advice, and the judge agreed awarding me the full schedule of costs (which he actually commented was very reasonable indeed).

Will get a full write up later tonight once I get to my computer.

Quick note - I asked for a transcript at the end, but the judge seemed nonplussed by my request. He said the charge 'far exceeded £50' and that I would have to pay for it. I didn't challenge any further (we'd been in the session for well over an hour by then) so not sure what exactly is the standing on this.

Either way, I won thanks to all the fabulous volunteers on this forum, so thank you thank you thank you! Well, I actually won because VCS' documentation was so pitiful, but I knew my defence was solid enough regardless of what they submitted.

[Deleted User]

LOL - Congratulations. Look forward to reading your thoughts later. In the meantime, a lunchtime libation is required! :beer:

bargepole

saarchy wrote: »

Quick note - I asked for a transcript at the end, but the judge seemed nonplussed by my request. He said the charge 'far exceeded £50' and that I would have to pay for it. I didn't challenge any further (we'd been in the session for well over an hour by then) so not sure what exactly is the standing on this.

No, it doesn't work like that. There are microphones around the room recording everything that is said on to a CD. You wouldn't have seen a stenographer typing away as people were speaking, unless you were watching a 1970s episode of Perry Mason. No wonder the Judge was nonplussed.

If you want a transcript, you have to apply for one using form EX107 (available online), and nominate one of the MoJ-approved transcription agencies, who will get a copy of the CD from the Court and type it up. The fee will depend on the length of the hearing, but for just the Approved Judgment it's usually £50 or less.

Anyway, well done on the win!

Redx

well done

lamilad and bargepole recently posted about paying for transcripts and lamilad mentioned details of the service he used, maybe the costs too

I suggest you read those recent posts for yourself

the full transcript can cost hundreds of pounds I believe , so bear in mind the costs of this , its not free

saarchy

So here's my summary of today.

I arrived at the court at 9:15 (Hearing was scheduled for 10AM). I went through security and checked the noticeboard for Room 12. 5 cases were listed, with mine at the top of the list so I was confident I would be the first hearing of the day.

Went into the waiting room at just before 10AM, and subsequently watched all 4 other claims go before mine. I actually had to go refresh my parking given I had not expected to be the last claim heard. Just before 12 and my case was called. The VCS lawyer was an older chap called Mr. Jackson, who I noted earlier had been sat in his chair the entire time furiously going over his notes.

As we entered the room, the judge initially ran me through the small claims procedure as it was my first time, going into detail that 'all the claimaint had to do was prove on the balance of probabilities that they had the right to ticket in this area.' I confirmed I understood the rules and then he turned back to Mr Jackson and....launched into it.

Firstly, he made mention to the large 'trial bundle' submitted by VCS and how he'd struggled to decipher it. He even went so far as to say he'd adjourned a previous case to the afternoon as he'd needed additional time to go through their document. He then noted the error of 'Nottinghamshire' and Mr. Jackson was quick to admit they he had spotted some errors as well. The judge wasn't sympathetic at all, but didn't press the point and instead indicated to both parties he wanted to go through each ticket individually.

As we went through all 8 tickets, it was clear just how badly prepared VCS & Mr. Jackson were. The tickets they had photocopied were practically ineligible and the only guidance on where exactly my car was parked was a crudely drawn map by the parking attendant. 2 of the tickets had no pictures whatsoever (which got an annoyed sign from the judge each time) and the 6 other tickets did not establish where exactly I parked. The judge pressed Mr.Jackson to provide any proof that I had parked in an area I was not supposed to, which he was unable to do. Once he was done with each ticket, the judge would ask me for a statement. My response was that, at all times, my vehicle was parked on a public road (He noted at the end that, if I had a lawyer with me, I could (and maybe should) have answered with 'There is no case to answer here.' Either way, he accepted my response of parking on a public road.

After we'd been through all 8 tickets, Mr. Jackson went on to show the services agreements and maps outlining where exactly VCS were entitled to operate in the area. I struggled to bite my tongue given everything they were discussing was for an area over 200m away from the area in question, but when I did interject (which I was wrong to do) the judge waved me off with a raised hand and a smile. I knew then my best course of action was to say nothing and let him question Mr. Jackson himself. Which he did and quickly drew the conclusion that all service agreements were lacking any information pertinent to the case and therefore, were of no use to the claimant whatsoever.

There was a pause, and I got myself ready to start preparing my defence. But I shouldn't have bothered. The judge summarized that the Claimaint had to prove, on the balance of probabilities, they had the right to enforce parking in this area, and nothing in the trial bundle prepared by VCS came anywhere close to that. He asked if Mr.Jackson agreed, which he did, and then he turned to me. He asked what information I had which supported my statement that I was parking on a public road. I should him the 'List of Roads' document and a map I'd outlined last night. There was a bit of back and forth about not submitting the map beforehand, but I had bought copies for everyone and Mr. Jackson didn't put up much of a fight.

The judge took a moment to examine my documents, before promptly agreeing that my evidence supported that the road was public. As VCS had not been able to provide any relevant evidence themselves, the judge turned around and immediately dismissed the case.

We both agreed with the verdict and Mr. Jackson got up to leave. I interjected that I had further business to discuss, notably my 'schedule of costs' and with a sigh, Mr. Jackson sat back down. The judge clearly knew I was going to say this, as he already had a large book open and began quoting CPR 29.something about defendant proving that the claimaint had reacted unreasonably. His tone suggested this might be difficult, but he smiled again and asked me to please explain clearly why I thought VCS were being unreasonable. I mentioned various things (threatening letters, definition of 'goodwill', and the errors that were littered throughout VCS' WS. That was difficult as he interjected repeatedly to tell me we'd been through this already and the case had already been dismissed because of this. At that point, I was a bit stuck and was thinking of not pushing my luck... but luckily I had my notes and I noticed I'd not mentioned the documents being late. As soon as I said this, the judge responded that he'd been wondering when I would get to this.' We discussed the lateness and Mr. Jackson responded that they had sent the letter on the 28th September, whilst I had only sent my documents on the 1st August. I was adamant that I only received their documents on the 4th and had the e-mail to the court on the 3rd confirming this. Suffice to say, the Judge took a pretty dim view on their lateness and I knew I had momentum. I closed by saying that VCS case was frivolous and without merit, pointing to the fact I'd mentioned in my statement of defence that VCS would be required to showcase exactly what parcels of land they had authority over (or something to that affect). This was clearly the clincher as the Judge stepped in, grilling Mr. Jackson on how such a large trial bundle contained absolutely no response to one of my major defences (in fact, the only defence I actually needed on the day). Mr Jackson stumbled through a response, but the judge had clearly had enough. He summarized and explained that he needed to consider, under various formats, what would be deemded unreasonable. He went on to say that the delay, combined with the poorly prepared trial bundle and Lawyer (Mr Jackson admitted to only having read the paperwork the day before) meant that VCS were wasting the courts time, the Defendant's time and the judges time. We'd been in the room for almost 2 hours at this point.... To my delight, he agreed that VCS had acted unreasonably and that the Claimant was certainly entitled to costs. He went through my schedule of costs, noting that I'd only costed for 5 hours of LiP and we both laughed at how I'd have to commit 10x just to read VCS trial bundle. He agreed they were more than fair, which Mr. Jackson agreed with, and then ordered they have to pay me within 14 days. Hooray!

As we left, I did mention about a transcript, but the judge seemed pretty put out by this. When I said I'd been advised it would only cost £50, he said it 'would be much more than that'. I didn't press the issue at all.

In summary, a 2 hour small claims hearing in which the judge dismantled the case by VCS without me having to submit any defence whatsoever. The defence I did submit (public road) was sufficient, but not necessary as I could have just responded with 'There is no case to answer' which would have been fine.

As a bonus, just before we got up to leave, the judge launched into a bit of a rant at the VCS lawyer. He called them a serial litigant and a professional firm who should absolutely know better. There were several other great slights he made against VCS but I can't remember them right now. He asked me how many other cases VCS had against my colleagues. I responded with 4 that I know about and the judge responded with something along the lines of 'Well that doesn't sound like good news...for VCS' Music to my ears.

I've probably missed a few bits out, but given the hearing took over 2 hours, I hope you'll forgive me. Let me know if there's any questions, and again, thank you so much for your help!:T

bargepole

saarchy wrote: »

I arrived at the court at 9:15 (Hearing was scheduled for 10AM). I went through security and checked the noticeboard for Room 12. 5 cases were listed, with mine at the top of the list so I was confident I would be the first hearing of the day. Went into the waiting room at just before 10AM, and subsequently watched all 4 other claims go before mine.

The order in which the cases appear on the printed list, is not necessarily the order in which they are heard. The Judges decide which ones to deal with first, usually the least complex cases.

saarchy wrote: »

As we went through all 8 tickets, it was clear just how badly prepared VCS & Mr. Jackson were.

These hired gun advocates only get the case file the night before, and have to try to make a silk purse from a sow's ear - usually failing to do so.

saarchy wrote: »

... and Mr. Jackson didn't put up much of a fight.

Probably because he knew that would only delay the inevitable.

saarchy wrote: »

The judge clearly knew I was going to say this, as he already had a large book open and began quoting CPR 29.something about defendant proving that the claimaint had reacted unreasonably.

It's CPR 27.14(2)(g)

saarchy wrote: »

As we left, I did mention about a transcript, but the judge seemed pretty put out by this. When I said I'd been advised it would only cost £50, he said it 'would be much more than that'. I didn't press the issue at all.

See post #127 in this thread.

Umkomaas

Excellent report @saarchy, and well done on your victory.

Given that the judge agreed that you'd been ticketed on a public road, you should report this fact to the DVLA and ask that they take serious action against VCS. Trading Standards can also take legal action against VCS too.

I think you'll probably need a copy of the transcript for this - see what others say.

This could get interesting - time for some revenge for you.