Supplier Charging for Energy Not Consumed

wolfysmith

Nov15: My elderly, disabled and recently bereaved sister took over her husband’s energy account only to find £100+ in debit due to bad tariff etc. I suggested switching and found two suppliers to replace the dual fuel supplier. Much cheaper, 50% saving.
Dec 15 – Switched and provided readings to both suppliers
Jan 16 – Wrong readings on final gas bill, overcharged by £20
Jan 16 - Oct 16 - various letters (3 inches deep) and phone calls (hours) to recover £20, went up to CEO 3 times. CEO instructed staff not to repay and refused to talk to me further (end of process). Went to Ombudsman, it agreed that supplier owes £20 but wanted to water down the deliberate overcharging and refusal to refund. Because I didn’t accept all of the findings it refused to instruct the Supplier to repay £20 even though it had agreed with the overcharge. Ombudsman refused to talk to me (end of process). In the Ombudsman response I was told that some of the issues should be taken up by OFGEM
Nov 16 – I HAVE BEEN DUMPED - THE PROCESS TO ENFORCE REGULATIONS AND RECTIFY SUPPLIER BEHAVIOUR IS BROKEN.
Nov 16 – wrote again to CEO after pointing out the obvious that is was effectively unlawful. I received £20.
Jan 17 – wrote to OFGEM

• Why did I have to spend 12 months getting £20 refunded…. A regulatory issue?
• If circa 6m people per annum switch to the same supplier then that supplier stands to 'rip off' customers to the tune of £117m per annum….. a regulatory issue?
• If incorrect readings are recorded then there is no reconciliation of consumption… a regulatory issue?

Feb 17 – OFGEM has stated that it cannot handle the issues. Awaiting final phone call.
FEB 17 .... THE PROCESS TO ENFORCE REGULATIONS AND RECTIFY SUPPLIER BEHAVIOUR IS DEFINATELY BROKEN
HOW MANY CUSTOMERS ARE TREATED LIKE THIS?
WHO IS KEEPING THE SUPPLIERS BEHAVIOUR UNDER CONTROL?
SUPPLIERS NEED TO BE INVESTIGATED AND MUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

MARTIN:GET THE SUPPLIER CEO, OMBUDSMAN AND OFGEM IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA TO EXPOSE WHAT’S GOING ON. HAPPY TO TAKE PART.

All comments welcome

wolfysmith

Who else has been ripped off?

Andy_WSM

wolfysmith wrote: »

• If circa 6m people per annum switch to the same supplier then that supplier stands to 'rip off' customers to the tune of £117m per annum….. a regulatory issue?

All comments welcome

That's a very big "IF"!

Only once in a dozen switches have I had problem with reads between suppliers and that was quickly resolved with a polite email to EON customer services, who dealt with it effeciently, effectively & politely. They, like other suppliers, also have reps on this forum who are polite & courteous and willing to pick up individual cases to help them conclude to a satisfactory closure.

I suspect my experience is true for a majority of people that switch suppliers.

Sure there are bound to be process problems, all companies in all industries have them. It must be remembered that the people we depend upon to resolve these issues for us are human and often low-paid, so an "all guns blazing" attempt at resolving issues isn't usually the most effective way to get them dealt with.

Robin9

What readings did your new supplier use ?

You don't pay for the energy twice and meter readings when you switch have to be agreed by an independent body.

Time to move on - life is worth more than £20.

robotrobo

surely its £20 that you would have not paid your new supplier for gas used.

im glad i havent borrowed £20 from you ?, sounds like life would not be worth living for.


Good luck in the small claims court.

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena

Andy_WSM wrote: »

That's a very big "IF"!

Only once in a dozen switches have I had problem with reads between suppliers and that was quickly resolved with a polite email to EON customer services, who dealt with it effeciently, effectively & politely. They, like other suppliers, also have reps on this forum who are polite & courteous and willing to pick up individual cases to help them conclude to a satisfactory closure.

Good morning Andy_WSM,

I'm just popping on to say thank you for this.

Malc and I are always here to help as much as we can.

Helena

System

robotrobo wrote: »

surely its £20 that you would have not paid your new supplier for gas used.
.

This is an important point that is not understood by people that switch. All meter readings go to a 3rd party for verification based on previous data held by the data collectors. Gas tends to be the main problem as the Annual Quantity (AQ) for gas is only updated once a year. I had a situation 18 months ago when I switched suppliers and the switch was based on an estimated reading which was 120C3Ms in the old supplier's favour. This equates to about to about 1350kWhs or about £33 in money terms paid to the old supplier. The industry limit for gas before a readings dispute can be initiated is 125C3Ms.

So what next. I paid my old supplier the amount due and then paid NOTHING in respect of the unit price of the gas consumed until my meter passed the opening reading - some 3 months later. The new supplier also re-imbursed me for the small difference in the unit cost of the gas between suppliers which about £2.39 not £33.

Whilst I am not a supporter of smart meters per se, the rollout of smart meters will take away this particular switching issue.

This really is a none story. Annoying - yes, but not fraud of any sort. If suppliers were losing out, then I am sure that there would be a great outcry from within the industry. Moreover, now that prices are on the increase, most of us would be happy to pay our old supplier an extra £20 against future energy use.

wolfysmith

For those that have already read the post. Read it again.


The Supplier did not treat its customer correctly, an elderly, disabled person who had recently lost her husband. She was owed £20... a lot of money to that specific customer..... its like someone taking £20 out of her purse.


The correct reading was provided, the supplier refused to take it and didn't pay up nearly 12 months.


Those of you Supplier reps are second guessing.... you don't know the extent of this behaviour.... OFGEM is investigating.


The refund is not the issue that's done....its the behaviour which needs addressing.


Come on Martin, someone needs to tackle this problem to stop this overcharging.

brewerdave

wolfysmith wrote: »

Its own, not the final reading.

So, to clarify, the start reading for the new supplier was LOWER than this disputed final reading ?So you really did pay twice for the energy consumed??

System

wolfysmith wrote: »

Its own, not the final reading.

You were wrong to provide both suppliers with meter readings. Under the terms of its Supply Licence, the gaining supplier is responsible for managing all aspects of the switch which includes asking you for an opening meter reading which is then passed to the Data Collectors for Industry verification (people have been known to misread meters or lie). The verified reading is then passed back to both suppliers to close and open your accounts. It follows that these readings should be the same - but they do not have to agree with the reading that you provided. If they do not agree, then you should complain to the gaining supplier who is required to ensure that a opening/closing reading is agreed.

Chapter and Verse from Consumer Affairs at Ofgem:

In electricity the new supplier’s metering agents send the meter read through to the old supplier when they have validated it. In the gas, it takes about 15 working days but it is usually quicker; the gas meter read is sent to Xoserve who validates it before sending this to the old supplier.

With regards to electricity, the Master Registration Agreement Service Company procedure is mentioned in section 4 and stipulates the following :

The Supplier contacted by the Customer, or wishing to raise a dispute on their own behalf (the “Initiating Supplier”) should consider the specific circumstances relating to the dispute.
1. Where the difference between the Supplier’s view of consumption and that derived from the initial MRoCoS is 250 kWh (250 units) or less, the Supplier shall not dispute the meter reading unless the Customer specifically requests a new reading, but should attempt to resolve the dispute with an accommodation e.g. cash allowance to the Customer, thus retaining the initial MRoCoS used for Settlements. No further action is then required.
2. Where the customer is unwilling to accept an accommodation, or the difference between the Supplier’s view of consumption and that derived from the MRoCoS is more than 250 kWh (250 units) the Initiating Supplier should initiate a dispute.

For gas, the Supply Point Administration Agreement – the Procedure for Agreement of Change of Supplier Reading and the Resolution of Disputed Change of Supplier Readings stipulates the following (this document doesn’t appear to be on their website):
2.1.2.D.1 - Where the difference between the Supplier’s view of consumption and that derived from the initial Change of Supplier (CoS) meter reading is 1200 kWh or less, the Supplier shall not dispute the meter reading unless the Customer specifically requests a new reading but should attempt to resolve the dispute with an accommodation e.g. cash allowance to the Customer, thus retaining the initial reading used for the CoS meter reading. No further action is then required.

2.1.2.D.2 - Where the Customer is unwilling to accept an accommodation, or the difference between the Supplier’s view of consumption and that derived from the CoS meter reading is more than 1200 kWh then the Initiating Supplier (IS) should initiate a dispute.

wolfysmith

BrewerDave and Hengus - thanks for the comments......to clarify....I know the process..... the 'new supplier' provided the read to the 'old supplier' but the 'old supplier' refused to take the read. The customer was being overcharged by the 'old supplier' but eventually refunded but only after persistent chasing Supplier complaints/Ombudsman etc....... THE ISSUE IS THE BEHAVIOUR AND THE PRACTICE OF OVERCHARGING. Lets move on and deal with behaviour/practice.