Pip assessment questions

rockingbilly

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

Basically I want to disabuse folk here of the notion I am scare mongering but to be aware that the HCP is not on your side. Think of them as the official side rep and you are the union member.

I am emphasising the importance of being thorough in your answers. So if you are asked about difficulties with dressing you will need to be clear for example.....

My carer had to ensure that I was up earlier than usual to prepare for this meeting. They had to help me get dressed in order to look well kempt for this assessment. They also assisted me with washing too. I had to arrange for this meeting to be in the morning because I would be too fatigued for it to take place in the afternoon and as it is I will be exhausted this afternoon after this meeting because my M.E causes significant onset of fatigue later after an activity that leaves me unable to do anything but rest such as this that involves concentration, physically getting here and stress.

Or:

I usually spend most of the day in my pyjamas because it is easier than getting dressed. It took me a long time to get dressed because it is painful to put on my socks and shoes. To help with this I use a long handles shoe horn,

Or:

It took a considerable time to get my son ready for this interview. He is Autistic as you know and he was obstinate when required to get up earlier. He also required more prompting and assistance than usual to get dressed because he did not want to leave the house. He even began to remove clothing in the car. In order to stop him I had to promise to buy a lego set he has wanted for ages.

Or:

My son/daughter needs a lot of help understanding how to speak to other people and understanding instructions. For example when I asked him/her to feed the dog he/she tried to give the dog crisps and a lolly.

Ensure the HCP is under no illusions of the difficulties you or the person you care for has.

Brilliant suggestions but what happens if you are nervous, are unable to remember what you are supposed to say or maybe the assessor refuses you the time to explain in such detail?
I have experienced all three at my assessments.
I always end of just thinking - I want to go home, I don't like this, I don't like being put under this pressure - just get on with it and give short yes/no answers to quicken the investigation/assessment.

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

If you are nervous then the person with you should speak. If the assessor says they cannot remind them that the rules state they can. No one should attend alone anyway. If they refuse the time tell them that it is an interview to assist the DWP to come to a decision on your PIP and the interview is for you and they need to allow you to be thorough.

Muttleythefrog

You got your PA4 "Consultant Report" Form yet op?

I agree with advice others have given. On this issue of lies... I challenged heavily in reconsideration some of the facts and judgements in the PA4 as well as present case law to argue on some technical points. That reassessment took many weeks but they absolutely failed to consider what I presented suffice to say 'if you have problems with how the assessment was conducted then contact the private healthcare company'. When demanded to properly explain their choice of descriptors contrary to my suggestion.. they simply returned to their default ... 'must have a physical diagnosis and there is no evidence you do'... and 'you attended mainstream school so you do not have cognitive problems'. It's deeply frustrating... especially for someone like me... I've got a solid case to argue at tribunal and would be moderately confident of success but my wife has correctly pointed out that if I pursued it then our marriage would probably be over and we've little to gain. So I accept that they've applied the wrong descriptors in around half of the categories... my award is a good one.

But I agree with what people are saying and it mirrors my comments on your other thread. I note in mine they conclude I can walk 200 metres unaided... despite me pointing out there is zero evidence that is true... they rely on the HCP's observation that I walked unaided... well that wasn't true but even if it was.. it was for no more than 20 or 30 metres trip of waiting room to assessment room. When leaving the room I clearly was aided... it took my wife and at least one member of their staff to get me off the floor and out of the building... if that is unaided... well..lol. I just have to chalk this one up and move on.

Let us know what the PA4 recommends... we might be able to advise in relation to that but hopefully it has been accurate.

Just editing to add from your other thread... I presume your anxiety or other symptoms got the better of you.. I answered lots of your questions days earlier so just for clarity in case you've not responded to advice given here.. "The working day after your medical I strongly advise you call (or someone on your behalf with your permissions likely necessary to continue the call) the DWP and ask for a copy of the medical report that resulted from your assessment. It is transmitted electronically I understand so they should probably have it quickly from the private healthcare contractor who conduct your assessment. The document to request is the PA4 - consultation report. The DWP almost always will heavily rely on this report to determine your entitlement and so you will likely have good idea what decision is to follow in the days or weeks to come. There is the possibility of writing to DWP Decision Maker at this point to put on record anything wrong in the report but you might get mixed successes... these decisions seem to be often little more than rubber stamping the PA4."

A_Flock_Of_Sheep

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

You got your PA4 "Consultant Report" Form yet op?


I agree with advice others have given. On this issue of lies... I challenged heavily in reconsideration some of the facts and judgements in the PA4 as well as present case law to argue on some technical points. That reassessment took many weeks but they absolutely failed to consider what I presented suffice to say 'if you have problems with how the assessment was conducted then contact the private healthcare company'. When demanded to explain their decisions with the descriptors and rejection of some.. they simply returned to their default ... 'must have a physical diagnosis and there is no evidence you do'... and 'you attended mainstream school so you do not have cognitive problems'. It's deeply frustrating... especially for someone like me... I've got a solid case to argue at tribunal but my wife has correctly pointed out that if I pursued it.. then our marriage would probably be over. So I accept that they've applied the wrong descriptors in around half of the categories... my award is a good one. But I agree with what people are saying and it mirrors my comments on your other thread. I note in mine they conclude I can walk 200 metres unaided... despite me pointing out there is zero evidence that is true... they rely on the HCP's observation that I walked unaided... well that wasn't true but even if it was.. it was for no more than 20 or 30 metres trip of waiting room to assessment room. When leaving the room I clearly was aided... it took my wife and at least one member of their staff to get me off the floor and out of the building... if that is unaided... well..lol. I just have to chalk this one up and move on.


Let us know what the PA4 recommends... we might be able to advise in relation to that but hopefully it has been accurate.

The only way around it is to get a go pro!

See what I mean. Yours is a classic example. They used mainstream school as a weapon to deny appropriate descriptors. The DWP and their "health professionals" must still be living in yesteryear where now in the present Special Needs provisions schools are cut to the bone and many many more childrean with special needs and disabilites are attending mainstream school due to the support now available there.

Muttleythefrog

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

The only way around it is to get a go pro!

See what I mean. Yours is a classic example. They used mainstream school as a weapon to deny appropriate descriptors. The DWP and their "health professionals" must still be living in yesteryear where now in the present Special Needs provisions schools are cut to the bone and many many more childrean with special needs and disabilites are attending mainstream school due to the support now available there.

lol... I once tried using an advisor.. never going there again... story of my working life... professionals getting in the way of doing things properly. As my former boss put it in brutal terms 'I've got 20 lawyers who don't know the law so I expect you to stop them sending out anything stupid'... she would later close my department and go out of business after several troubles with the Law Society and clients. My PIP award is a good one.. and I'd have certainly settled for it before being treated badly and incorrectly.. rather like with DLA.. I ended up fighting for and getting a higher award than I would have accepted because I was treated so poorly. My PIP award is potentially vital to my wife being able to remain in UK so given a previous hideous experience of a tribunal the small but real risk of disaster was enough for her to remind of wider considerations.

But yes it was surprising to me they persisted with this 'you attended mainstream schools and university'. I left university a generation ago... and ironically I did suffer significant (and relevant) problems at school and Uni and explained that to them. It's silly they reject use of my independent evidence that in parts is very good for testing descriptors yet are prepared to consider information over 20 years old to make some bizarre inferences that actually don't even stand up to legal scrutiny if true.

But it does seem that if you want the law properly applied then you'll need a tribunal where they will more likely take it seriously. At the assessment the HCP did actually insist she is not there to apply the law... which angered me substantially given that her role from my perspective was to do precisely that in determining which descriptors apply... albeit from a stance of 'medical expertise' (her terminology suggested a distinct lack of that!)

As you suggest they'll use some rather strange and peculiar yet repeated ways to deny applicability of some disabilities/descriptors. In a sense my reconsideration request ran in a parallel universe... there was little evidence they ran in correlation to produce the flawed and inadequate document detailing the new (identical) decision.

kingfisherblue

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

If he goes by public transport they will say "reports is able to use public transport and is therefore able to engage with other people".

If he has no specialist input 24/7 that is used against a claimant too. Given the fact the NHS is in crisis and is only able to patch people up and send them on their way the chances of lengthy ongoing specialist input is rare and key opportunity for the DWP to trivialise someone's condition and abilities.

Firstly, as Tommo says, my son will not be travelling alone, so your statement is incorrect. Secondly, I am my son's appointee and will be speaking for him if he has to have a face to face appointment. There is considerable medical evidence that my son is permanantly and severely disabled. He attends a special school and is going to continue in September at a special needs facility within college (our only option) - his EHCP is currently being updated. I am quite confident about speaking about my son's many needs, and should any report state that he can use public transport alone, I am capable of fighting it. I'd love to see how he can manage to get to the bus stop alone in his manual wheelchair that does not self propel - he cannot push himslef due to intense pain caused by hypermobility. In addition, he would not be able to put his wheelchair onto public transport as he cannot fold it or lift it. Because of his severe mental impairment, he cannot tell the time, read a timetable, or follow a map or directions. Therefore he is both physically and cognitively unable to travel alone.

A friend at his special school has just received an ongoing award for enhanced rate PIP (both components) without F2F. She also has a chromosonal abnormality. It is possible that my son may not be called to a F2F, altohugh I accept that it is likely that he will be.

However, my son has numerous diagnoses, the main one being Down's Syndrome. He is severely affected in many ways and has a number of physical medical conditions as well as the associated learning disability. It would be difficult for the HCP to ignore this - although not impossible. When I am invited to apply for PIP for my son, I intend to include as much detail and information as possible, as this will illustrate his needs. In addition to medical and educational evidence, I will be including a diary of day-to-day life with my son.

If there are any errors on my son's assessment, I am quite sure that a tribunal will recognise his needs. I am prepared to go to tribunal if necessary.

However, it must be remembered that many people receive the correct rate of PIP when first assessed, but you don't hear anything about them. You only hear the stories of incorrect awards. In some cases, the awards (or failure to receive an award) may actually be correct, but the claimant does not agree because it is lower than they want. Not everybody who claims will qualify for PIP, and for those who do, they may not qualify for a higher rate but want one anyway.

I accept that some mistakes are made, but as already stated, no one posts about the correct awards that are given.

rockingbilly

A_Flock_Of_Sheep wrote: »

If you are nervous then the person with you should speak. If the assessor says they cannot remind them that the rules state they can. No one should attend alone anyway. If they refuse the time tell them that it is an interview to assist the DWP to come to a decision on your PIP and the interview is for you and they need to allow you to be thorough.

I always (except for once when my wife was refused to come with me into the assessment on the grounds that the room was too small and not enough chairs) have to go on my own. My wife can drive but she refuses to drive into the city where the assessments take place. She is a nervous driver and gets distracted easily. I no longer have a driving licence. Both our children work full time so they can't come and to be honest I don't want them to see me in the state I get at these assessments. No one else can come with me.
I'm not that confident enough with a face to face meeting with anybody, never mind a benefit assessment. I feel intimidated and nervous, but I really do try my best to put a face on and not show it. I am not strong enough to go up against them in the way you suggest.
They always seem to control the assessment which leaves me in a state which then leads me to want to get it over with as fast as possible.

CTcelt1988

More contradictions from you Rockingbilly. You say you have a car and drive, now you say you have no driving license.

Really, you have to try better at trolling.

rockingbilly

CTcelt1988 wrote: »

More contradictions from you Rockingbilly. You say you have a car and drive, now you say you have no driving license.

Really, you have to try better at trolling.

I said we have a car which my wife drives!

I can assure you that you will not find one post of mine that says that I drive the car. Please go ahead and re-post the post that says I do drive if you can find it to prove your point otherwise please stop posting offending comments

CTcelt1988

Yeah right. Going by your other comments, i don't believe a word you say.